The Development of Cities

[Kingmaker]

HiHi

Can I backtrack a bit, make sure I’m not barking up the wrong tree (it has been known ).

Rune I’m taking it that your original premise was that many of the European city claims to longevity if not overemphasised then downright lies! and you are citing native American (Iroquois Nation ??) use of Manhattan as a counter.

My premise is that given the physical geographical nature of western Europe it is virtually a guarantee that the majority of the European sites would have been not just occupied but also fortified. Without over generalizing (hopefully!) the sites invariably occupy positions that would control economically sustainable lands/trade routes/strategically important sites etc. Archaeological evidence aside, even the landscape provides clues eg still observable traces of Hill forts and agricultural field shapes.

Moving on a bit; my reasoning behind Europe having virtually always been inherently overpopulated is based to a certain extent on what you call a "Migration Theory" both from external inward flow of peoples and from, what were often climatically induced, internal overpopulation problems due to economic unsustainability. I’m not talking so much population density per mile here but rather the ability of ‘the Land’ to support its human population. That, too my way of thinking is a major, if not the major driving force behind Western European Global expansionism.

Oooops, just reread the original posts, was the very thing that over the 600yrs or so post Roman era drove Europe to become the expansionist force that it became. Err sorry Rune, that should have read 1600yrs or so, maths was never my strong point :rolleyes: That slip of mine may well of course have altered your perspective on what we were talking about so as I have no wish to Shanghai you into a debate on a false premise do we still have a debatable subject? maybe for eg ‘European expansion was in the main population driven’ or somesuch, your call.

If so then yes please Paul transfer it to Historical Discussions, game on.

If not then apologies Rune for wasting your time, Sheeee! I really should read more carefully what I’m writing :( ... (Exit Peter stage left muttering angrily to himself).

All the best
Peter