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[Walkure]

Before I throw my Computer out the window or smash it, could somebody please give me some insight on the following. 
In a current game, I have two M36, I choose veteran and gave them +1 leadership for some intestinal fortitude. they were assigned overwatch duties, and all they do is watch or pop smoke! Please help because I'm reaching for a hammer to beat this thing to pieces !

[A Canadian Cat]

Spotting in CM is attempting to simulate the real world. Before I get a bunch of people complaining "its just broken" sure there are some situations where the engine has some limitations but honestly the spotting is one of the coolest features of the game and it is, overall, really well done. No individual gets to see everything they could automatically. That is how it should be.

Having said that without more details it is hard to be more about your specific situation but here are a few things to consider. M36s are glass hammers. Yes, they have a nasty gun by they also have paper thin armour. So, if they spot a threat that looks like it is already facing them they will pop smoke and get out of dodge. They also might sit there and watch but not see everything. That's the game.

You as their commander need to give them the best possible opportunity you can. So, make sure they are in a hull down position if at all possible or key-holed or both. That way they will be less likely to be spotted. Also try to get them intel on the enemy. Have infantry near by who can spot and have them close enough to communicate with the commanders so they can get the intel. If your M36 has a "?" icon for an enemy tank they will be more likely to spot it first and engage successfully.

[Walkure]

Spotting in CM is attempting to simulate the real world. Before I get a bunch of people complaining "its just broken" sure there are some situations where the engine has some limitations but honestly the spotting is one of the coolest features of the game and it is, overall, really well done. No individual gets to see everything they could automatically. That is how it should be.

Having said that without more details it is hard to be more about your specific situation but here are a few things to consider. M36s are glass hammers. Yes, they have a nasty gun by they also have paper thin armour. So, if they spot a threat that looks like it is already facing them they will pop smoke and get out of dodge. They also might sit there and watch but not see everything. That's the game.

You as their commander need to give them the best possible opportunity you can. So, make sure they are in a hull down position if at all possible or key-holed or both. That way they will be less likely to be spotted. Also try to get them intel on the enemy. Have infantry near by who can spot and have them close enough to communicate with the commanders so they can get the intel. If your M36 has a "?" icon for an enemy tank they will be more likely to spot it first and engage successfully.

IM a CM1 dinosaur, trying to learn the CM2 mechanics.........Frustrating nuances

[A Canadian Cat]

Roger that. It is harder to become good at CM2 because it has more simulation features that lead to WTF moments. As the commander / player remember even your best guys are going to screw up and you just have to roll with the failures. I try to look at my job as, as I said, to give my guys the best chance possible. Get good intel, move in good concealment and cover and position them so they can win the fire fight.

[Streichholzsch�chtelchen]

I know this is off-topic, but in my experience, spotting isn't that good. The developers have implemented good elements such as relative spotting (individual calculation per unit, no automatic sharing as in CMx1) and factors such as distance, cover, optics, and experience. But in practice, it often fails: buttoned-up tanks detect infantry in the forest or anti-tank guns in seconds.

Real-time and turn-based modes use the same calculation routines for spotting and simulation. The faulty spotting is strongly related to the real-time mode, which is optimized for limited hardware (single-core CPUs). Calculations are batch processed, leading to unrealistic sightings.

Please correct me if I'm wrong

[A Canadian Cat]

I know a lot of people don't like it but it's not broken. Some of the hyperbolic examples "buttoned tanks detecting infantry in forest in seconds" just do not happen regularly. I'm not saying that it never happened I'm saying it is not likely to happen.

I play a lot. Every day. It is normal for AT guns to be undetected for a long long time only finally being spotted after they fire and even then not right away. Buttoned tanks see very poorly (in WW2 games) normally. Observer bias can lead to people fixating on the one time in a 100 event that happened to them and they cannot seem to let go.

The game weakness comes at close range. You can have some odd stuff where infantry in a street fail to spot a tank that is 20m away. And yes that is caused by the spotting cycle. That used to be a fixed 7s cycle but now they vary it and make it shorter for units in close proximity. The v4 engine is significantly better but still has issues in close.

The bottom line though is the actual spotting is probabilistic so checking more often would change nothing but some of the high spotting chance close range encounters.

Please note I mean no disrespect if you feel this is snarky I apologize - I assure you I can do snark and this is not it :-) I am happy to explain what I know about how the game work and share my thoughts but I'm beyond having bun fights so please take my posts as an attempt to explain what I know not an insult. That is how they are intended.

And if you think - whoa don't be so sensitive Cat then I am happy you are not taking it that way but trust me these discussions devolve into bun fights way to often.

[Westland]

@ A Canadian Cat

However, the "undiscovered" AT guns only apply to units already stationed on the map.
As soon as a player positions and camouflages AT guns, they are immediately detected.
In CMx1, it was possible to drive guns into forests or obstacles undetected by the enemy, dismount them, and then camouflage them.

[Streichholzsch�chtelchen]

I know a lot of people don't like it but it's not broken. Some of the hyperbolic examples "buttoned tanks detecting infantry in forest in seconds" just do not happen regularly. I'm not saying that it never happened I'm saying it is not likely to happen.

I play a lot. Every day. It is normal for AT guns to be undetected for a long long time only finally being spotted after they fire and even then not right away. Buttoned tanks see very poorly (in WW2 games) normally. Observer bias can lead to people fixating on the one time in a 100 event that happened to them and they cannot seem to let go.

The game weakness comes at close range. You can have some odd stuff where infantry in a street fail to spot a tank that is 20m away. And yes that is caused by the spotting cycle. That used to be a fixed 7s cycle but now they vary it and make it shorter for units in close proximity. The v4 engine is significantly better but still has issues in close.

The bottom line though is the actual spotting is probabilistic so checking more often would change nothing but some of the high spotting chance close range encounters.

Please note I mean no disrespect if you feel this is snarky I apologize - I assure you I can do snark and this is not it :-) I am happy to explain what I know about how the game work and share my thoughts but I'm beyond having bun fights so please take my posts as an attempt to explain what I know not an insult. That is how they are intended.

And if you think - whoa don't be so sensitive Cat then I am happy you are not taking it that way but trust me these discussions devolve into bun fights way to often.

I didn't claim that spotting is broken either. I explained that, in my opinion, the developers' basic idea is good, but the implementation is lacking. For me, it's not black and white, i.e., either it's all rubbish or it's amazing.

I didn't take your post negatively in any way. I'm happy when there's an objective exchange on topics like this. And of course, everyone feels differently or has a different opinion.

P.S.
Yes, I know, wars have been fought over the Holy Grail 

[A Canadian Cat]

I didn't claim that spotting is broken either. I explained that, in my opinion, the developers' basic idea is good, but the implementation is lacking. For me, it's not black and white, i.e., either it's all rubbish or it's amazing.

Cool fair enough.

[A Canadian Cat]

@ A Canadian Cat

However, the "undiscovered" AT guns only apply to units already stationed on the map.
As soon as a player positions and camouflages AT guns, they are immediately detected.
In CMx1, it was possible to drive guns into forests or obstacles undetected by the enemy, dismount them, and then camouflage them.

I am not sure that is the whole story. I have to admit that I do not regularly move guns around because moving units certainly get spotted easier. Usually the big problem with AT guns is range - too many maps have a much shorter range than AT guns would really be used at. I feel like the setup bonus is not as large as range. 

I have not tested it. Might be worth playing around with. 

I have a battle on going now where there are two AT guns (88s even so big) they are 700m away from my burning wrecks. One got a couple of shots off before I spotted it at all. The other I have no idea how many. I have ? icons for them now so even my observers who have clear LOS cannot see them fully after a few minutes of being silent. They are silent because I have to keep my tanks behind the hills or they get wrecked.