Question regarding how Supply is calculated

[Crossroads]

How does the supply work, once again?

Let us assume I have a not so good supply level, let us say 70%. I have a platoon, that has a Battalion and Regimental HQ. All optional rules on.

(1) My 1st platoon is within the range of both of its HQs
(2) My 1st platoon is within the range of its Battalion HQ, but not Rgt HQ
(3) My 1st platoon is withing the range of its Regimental HQ, but not Bn HQ
(4) as in (1), but I ahve a 3rd platoon, that is not within the 1st platoon. Additionally, what is the range of the 1st platoon?

(1) Do I get a 70% chance, tried on three occasions on row, for a supply? As in one for Bn, other for Rgt, and third die roll for the overall supply level?
(2) 2 x 70%?
(3) 1 x 70%?
(4) Also 1 x 70%?

Thanks for clearing this out for me, I hope

[Von Earlmann]

How does the supply work, once again?

Let us assume I have a not so good supply level, let us say 70%. I have a platoon, that has a Battalion and Regimental HQ. All optional rules on.

(1) My 1st platoon is within the range of both of its HQs
(2) My 1st platoon is within the range of its Battalion HQ, but not Rgt HQ
(3) My 1st platoon is withing the range of its Regimental HQ, but not Bn HQ
(4) as in (1), but I ahve a 3rd platoon, that is not within the 1st platoon. Additionally, what is the range of the 1st platoon?

(1) Do I get a 70% chance, tried on three occasions on row, for a supply? As in one for Bn, other for Rgt, and third die roll for the overall supply level?
(2) 2 x 70%?
(3) 1 x 70%?
(4) Also 1 x 70%?

Thanks for clearing this out for me, I hope

I think I can help you with some of this. First base supply level mainly impacts arty as they trace directly to it so, in this instance all of your arty units have a 70% chance of regaining supply on every turn provided they are not isolated.HQs have absolutely no effect on the supply of indirect fire units.So, you should always get arty HQs as far away from the action as possible as the only thing they do is provide vps for your enemy.

As for your platoons(or companies) they trace supply directly to thier parent HQ and % is based on distance from said HQ. If they are out of range they probably won't get any supply and percentage increases up to 100% for platoons located in the same hex as parent HQ. To find HQ supply range highlight the unit and then hit the H key. Highlighted hexs show range of 50% supply. Battalion HQs trace to Regimental to Division etc using the same principle. I do think the highest hq in a scenario will also trace supply to the base level but, not 100% sure on this.

Platoons with no parent hq will never regain supply.So, if you lose a battalion hq early or any parent hq your units will be out of supply for the rest of the scenario.The parent hq is set in the OOB file and can be as high as army for a company if that is the HQ they are listed under. I usually will make regimental HQs the lowest parent HQ for the larger scenarios and campaigns. They have a longer base range and improve ease of play. Some like the idea and some don't.I didn't take a vote as I wasn't going to change it anyway. Personally I hate scenarios with a ton(plethora) of battalion hqs.

The range of hqs changes based on the time frame of the war. I think the rates are in the manual somewhere. Bottom line is supply is a fragile thing at times and unit location is the most important factor. I probaly haven't cleared things up much. I usually look at the little bullet and if it's empty find the parent HQ and get them within range.

Now were both confused :-)

VE

[XLVIII Pz. Korp]

Earl

I think you mean the "W" key for supply range. "H" shows movement possibilities. :thumbs_up:

Just trying to help...

[Crossroads]

Thanks Earl & Pz.Korp.

I reread the manual again, and I think I got it now with the aid of your explanations.

From the manual (Chapter 8)

If a unit fails to maintain supply via its Headquarters, the program then checks for supply again, but this time using the friendly side’s base ammo level (turn on the Unit to display the base ammo level; Hot Key U). When checking to maintain supply, using the base ammo level, a percentile (0-99) die roll is made and compared to that side’s ammo level. A die roll equal to or less than this ammo level means that the unit maintains supply. If the die roll is greater than the ammo level, that unit will be Low on Supply for the current turn.

HQs – An HQ can only provide supply to units under its command “umbrella.” In addition, an HQ is never able to provide supply on any turn following a turn in which it changed its location (this simulates the Headquarters having to set up and re-establish communica¬tions). Besides that, each Headquarters (exception: Army-level HQs) must also make a supply check at the beginning of each turn. Like a normal combat unit, the Headquarters first checks supply based on the distance from its parent Headquarters; however, if that supply check fails, it then checks using the base ammo level listed for its side.

For CC optional rule:

If the Optional Rule for “Command Control” is enabled, a company-level “Command Post” (CP) is deemed to be inherently present with the first platoon of each company. If the first platoon is eliminated, the benefits of the CP are lost (it would be unrealistic to have the CP duties passed on in the time frame of a typical scenario). A CP unit is denoted by a radio icon displayed in the icon area along the left side of the Info Box. In addi¬tion, all friendly CP units are highlighted when you select Highlight HQ.

Units that operate beyond their company CP range (or if their CP is not present on the map) are subject to the following penalties:

– Less chance of Morale recovery (– 1)
– Less chance of Disruption recovery (–1)

A CP has an effective range (radius) which is about half the range of that side’s battal¬ion HQ. A CP’s range is highlighted if it is selected when the W Hot Key is pressed.

The radius highlighted by the W Hot Key is the limit of company CP control, while for battalions it is the 50% chance of resupply. This in effect means that units slightly beyond the battalion HQ radius can still be re-supplied, but at a rate slightly less than 50%. However, units outside the company CP radius suffer the penalty as described above.


I guess I will just need to check, using the W button, what is the 1st platoon radius... Hoever, as a bn HQ has a base radius of ca 8 hexes, a CP command post is only around 4 hexes.

As for the base supply, the manual seems to imply it is possible to get resupplied even if no HQ chain of command is present? Including the CP?

Thanks guys. Supply is of such importance regarding the battle value, I appreciate your help

[Von Earlmann]

HQs – An HQ can only provide supply to units under its command “umbrella.”

As for the base supply, the manual seems to imply it is possible to get resupplied even if no HQ chain of command is present? Including the CP?

Thanks guys. Supply is of such importance regarding the battle value, I appreciate your help

The manual would seem to suggest that but I am 99% sure that if a units umbrella is gone they are doomed to no supply for most of the scenario. Unless they never fire. Sometimes they can fire without going low on ammo but, once they do it is almost impossible to recover supply after that without that parent hq.

Reason for company supply rules is the designers actually intended for this to be a company game and I think they intended for companies to work as a unit. Hence it is very important in large scenarios to regroup your companies if possible and not recon by death with hq platoons :-)

This a good thread and should be revisited from time to time. As Bradley said Amateurs talk tactics and professionals talk logistics. Great example is the Bulge..Germans had a pretty good plan and tactics but at the crucial times they had no bullets :-)
Another good example is Kursk. Germans had ample supplies but couldn't get them close enough to the front in time of need.

VE

---

Earl

I think you mean the "W" key for supply range. "H" shows movement possibilities. :thumbs_up:

Just trying to help...

Yeah, that's right.......I rarely use the W button as my units are retreating so fast the hq never gets in supply :-)

VE

[Crossroads]

Thanks again, Earl!

Can you comment about the chain of command? Does it pay out to have the platoon in range of the whole chain, or is it enough that 3rd platoon is within 1st platoon, which in turn is within the Bn HQ, which in turn is in range of the Rgt HQ?

In other words, is there an advantage of having all the HQ units close enough to cover the front line units?

[Von Earlmann]

Thanks again, Earl!

Can you comment about the chain of command? Does it pay out to have the platoon in range of the whole chain, or is it enough that 3rd platoon is within 1st platoon, which in turn is within the Bn HQ, which in turn is in range of the Rgt HQ?

In other words, is there an advantage of having all the HQ units close enough to cover the front line units?

I think the chain works from the top down as listed in your OOB file. Example a division hq supplies regimental hqs beneath it(and battalions or companies attached to it). They in turn supply Battalion hqs beneath them. Battalion then supplies company or platoons beneath them. Manual explains the benefit of keeping company units within range of their hqs. So, every turn division hq will check with base supply if it fails it is out of supply wether it moves or not. Regiment will check with division and if it fails it will check with base (I think). Battalion should work the same way. Platoons will check with battalion using the company adjustments. If they fail they have no where else to check and will remain out of supply.

Simply put supply traces from highest HQ down to lowest. So if you have a corps hq it only needs to be within range of it's division hqs. Regiment hqs only need to be in range of Division, and battalion only needs to be in range of regiment. So, I think there is no real benefit to having all your hqs bunched close together or too near the front.Altho doing that will raise the % of gaining supply for the lower hqs.

The main reason I rarely use battalion hqs in large scenarios or campaigns is they have the shortest range of supply. If the los is long say as in the steppes they have to be in los to be within minimum supply range. They are also worth the most vps and easiest to kill. Lastly they will no more than get within range and have to move again. Regiment will work just as well as long as you move all the companies out of their battalions and keep them under the regiment in the OOB file.

Lastly, and this is just my opinion, most scenarios with a supply of 70 or 80 are way too high for what was realistic in most battles(esp on the EF for Germans). Tanks dont run forever; bullets don't last forever; and men get fatigued when they fight except on the electronic battlefield.

If I am wrong here I am sure someone will correct me but, I think this is how it works for the most part. Of course that could be why my record is so poor :-)

VE

[Crossroads]

Thanks again :)

It seems, then, if my platoon loses its Bn HQ but its Reg HQ is still present, it will remain in supply (given the die roll).

Once that is lost, and against how the manual is written, there is no base supply available, and the platoon would remain out of supply once fired.

I agree this is quite a nut to crack. (Or how do you guys put it? That's a bingo? ;) )

Bn HQs are a real mess in larger scenarios, but again, they do take the very issue of too good of a supply into account. The trouble for trying to have the Bn HQ follow the front lines is the equivalent of the said German units lacking in radios, and relying on telephone wires.

Sometimes, for the beer&pretzel enjoyment, I would like to see the whole Supply thing an optional rule. But then again, that would be too easy, wouldn't it!

I changed the name of the thread with a hope some of the guys truly in the know of this supply thingy would join in

[Huib Versloot]

The main reason I rarely use battalion hqs in large scenarios or campaigns is they have the shortest range of supply. If the los is long say as in the steppes they have to be in los to be within minimum supply range. They are also worth the most vps and easiest to kill. Lastly they will no more than get within range and have to move again. Regiment will work just as well as long as you move all the companies out of their battalions and keep them under the regiment in the OOB file.
VE

I make all my decisions and plans on Bn level (more than on Rgt level), also in larger scenarios. I feel unhappy in VE scenarios because of this omission and complain about it a lot to my opponents... Not many disagreed with me though. It might be an idea to leave them in (except for Arty Bn HQ perhaps) as I think the advantage of leaving them out does not weigh up to the trouble caused of not having them when you're used to using them in all other scenarios.
The same way I was shocked to see that in "A Close Run Thing" the company mortars and the support companies were left out. In company tactics they are key elements, for me at least.

[Scud]

What happens to supply when you get a hit on an HQ, but don't destroy it, anything?