Bridge Building tricks

Huib Versloot · 12-27-2006, 03:36 AM,

jonnymacbrown · 12-27-2006, 01:43 PM,

"PDT values and unit ratings can all be changed to accomodate titles where companies need to construct bridges quickly."

I agree with Huib that there isn't a problem and we're just making one up. Did any river ever stop, or even slow up, a WWII mechanized army? Did that ever happen on the German drive to the east or to the west? On the retreat out of Russia, the day the last Greman unit crossed the Dneiper, was the same day the Red Army crossed it! All those "probability" tables are just that; guesses. They are not true. The only true number is 30% and that is the odds of successful construction on the 1st turn or on the millionth, ad infinitum. Making companies 10% means that they will very rarely successfully build a bridge, and will probably never be used that way, even though Huib has given multiple instances where they did. Why don't we just leave it alone? And I am so sorry I brought this up. von Egan :smoke:

FM WarB · 12-28-2006, 04:07 AM,

FM WarB, your solution of bridge building classes by engineer unit, while a good idea, lies outside of what could be called relatively "simple" to implement.

Volcanoman,
Many moons ago when emailing with John Tiller I (and others, I'm sure) suggested a change. His object oriented programming style made it possible to impliment, though how "simple" the coding change would be I dont know.
This good idea from long ago was the then radical suggestion to have computer controlled defensive fire in Talonsoft Civil War games. I have yet to hear Mr Tiller say that creating engineers with different bridge building capacities would be too difficult for him to impliment.
WB

Glenn Saunders · 12-28-2006, 09:22 AM,

Mike Bowen · 12-28-2006, 10:21 PM,

Its an old concern of mine and I may as well throw it in again whilst discussing engineers size matters in the sense that for any engineering job if a unit has taken massive losses they will perform it at the same rate as a unit with no losses. I had a unit of two Australian engineers ie 2 men claering mines at the same rate as a full strength bat I awarded them VCs but they said it was nothing anyone could do it.

Perhaps the answer which will be complex is to say (I cant do the maths) that building a bridge takes X man hours but you might get lucky or unlucky and there is a + or - variation each turn. If your bridge building unit rolls agains its real strength with a variant for luck and possibly quality when it gets to the number bingo you get a bridge (or a minefield or a cleared minefield etc)

Now that may be complex but it can be done and it has been done in the HPS Napoleonic new releases. I have no idea if the code is different but is it worth asking Mr Tiller?

Mike

FM WarB · 12-29-2006, 02:06 PM,

Glenn.
I've gone through the various Bulge oobs out there (and I did John Egan's first oob, which is still not perfect). I must agree with you that, if done well in the oob, bridge building capability can be well enough represented. It is something I and the others who have scenarios on your Unofficial Panzer Campaigns website have strived for.
My idea may indeed have merit, but (eating crow) it is not necessary, given good oobs.
WB

Hank · 12-29-2006, 02:17 PM,

this thread is about bridges so I was wandering if anyone had the same thought I had about what an engineer is doing when "bridge ops" are initiated on a hex side with a damaged bridge?

Is the engineer unit building a new treadway bridge next to the damaged bridge or is it repairing the bridge?

However long it takes, you guys debate that issue.
But, if an engineer has heavy bridge building capability I would think it would be able to repair a bridge then move on to other bridge building jobs (without disassembling the bridge they just built or repaired). OF course, some bridging engineers can be broken down but I don't think its that way in all sce's.

As is, PzC's can only have a bridge in place ... built or repaired ... when an engineer is in the hex.

just a thought ... I thought this would be important. Several times ... I've needed a bridge closer to the front but I had to take down a bridge in the rear areas to free up an engineer for another bridge near the front lines. ... if the engineer couldn't be broke down into smaller units.

FM WarB · 12-29-2006, 02:32 PM,

An on map bridge is a THING, across the hexside. It can be blown by engineers. When an engineer builds or repairs a bridge it is not a thing across the hexside. It is That engineer unit maintaining the bridge. Attack the engineer maintaining the bridge, and you are, I believe attacking the bridge, too.

FM WarB · 12-30-2006, 01:25 AM,

Hank Wrote:As is, PzC's can only have a bridge in place ... built or repaired ... when an engineer is in the hex.

Interestingly enough, HPS Napoleonic Battles engineers can repair bridges and move away when the job is done. Give me some guys in aprons with axes!...LoL

Dog Soldier · 12-30-2006, 02:24 PM,

Even Napoleonic period bridges collapsed when enough panicked soldiers tried to cross all at once, if I recall correctly.

They never had to worry about the weight of panzers, trucks, supply columns and various other traffic of a modern army that can tear up a road or bridge.

I think the idea of the engineers having to stay and maintain the bridge in the WW2 period is reasonable.

Dog Soldier