jason Petho

[Schwerpunkt75]

giving them all stronger attack values at a range of one hex.

Current attack values and expected attack values.

Would like to get other CS veterans' opinions on this issue. 

I think that everyone would be in agreement that Russian SMG platoons and Guards SMG platoons should have high assault values relative to other infantry, given their armament. 

What I've never understood, however, is why the SMG platoons have such weak firepower at 1-hex. Firepower for the five SMG and Guards SMG platoons available in EF2 at a range of 1-hex ranges from 2 to 6. 

I did some research on Gary Kennedy's excellent https://www.bayonetstrength.uk, which gives a pretty good idea of the various organizations and re-organizations of Red Army infantry platoons throughout the war. IMO, based on the available information, Russian SMG platoons should be positively deadly at a range of 1-hex given the amount of firepower they could bring to bear, although much less so at ranges beyond 1-hex.

I'm playing a huge scenario right now against Dawags, who made the point that Russian infantry, even late in the war, is basically cannon fodder. He's not wrong, IMO. Re-modeling Russian SMG platoons would go a long way to correct this.

Any thoughts?

[Jason Petho]

I'm happy to make the change, the logic is sound. 

But let's here some feedback from others too!

Discussion, gentlemen!

[Hawk Kriegsman]

Hello All, 

I did a quick tour through the unit viewer. 

The Russian SMG units fall into 3 flavors. 

FP of 6/3 
FP of 4/2 
FP of 2/1 

The reason the assault factor is so much higher than the FP is the SMG is much more effective within a hex (where an assault is taking place) than to an adject hex (which the unit is shooting up to 250 meters).  Additionally, SMG units carried a lot of grenades.  The effective range of the PPsh41 was 150 to 200 meters which is less than 1 full hex.

Units with the 6/3 FP are Guards, SMG 39, Guards SMG 44 and Marine SMG.  In the write ups for these units there is text stating they also had some LMGs and 50mm mortars issued to them. This would be an increase of firepower. 

Units with the 4/2 FP are SMG 41, Ski SMG.  This makes sense to me SMG 41 units are the replacements for the 39 SMG units that have been wiped out earlier in 1941.  These units would have less training, less equipment and possibly fewer men.  They would just not be as effective as their prewar counterparts. Ski SMG may not have the integral LMG and 50 mortar within the unit so less firepower. 

Leaves us with the 2/1 FP SMG units, which are Guards SMG and NKVD SMG.  

The NKVD makes some sense to me as it is more a political unit verses a combat unit.  I assume the Guards SMG is a played-out unit or lacking in manpower. 

Not all the units have descriptions.   Just because these units were all issued SMGs does not mean they should have the same combat values. Training (or lack thereof) is something that has to be factored in.  It is also seen on the Russian Rifle platoons. There are values all over the place for 38 Rifle, 41 Rifle, 42 Rifle, 43 Rifle etc.

I would say leave the SMG units be as they are.  You have currently have 3 tiers of SMG troops.  Let the scenario designers decide which they want to use. 

They definitely should not all be the same.

[Jason Petho]

That also makes sense to me

[Schwerpunkt75]

Going to have to agree to disagree on the lack of firepower at 1-hex. It creates a standard that doesn't seem to apply to any other type of platoon. I would note that the Volksgrenadier platoon, which is armed primarily with SMGs, has a one-hex FP of 18. Was the MP-40 that much better than the PPSh?

Maybe the solution is to create an "alternate" group of SMG platoons with better firepower at 1-hex, similar to what was done with the Sdkfz 251s, and as Hawk noted, let the scenario designers decide.

[Jason Petho]

Adding a new platoon is simple enough to do!