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Is there an existing thread on this change to the rule? I've tried searching but cannot find anything? The reason I ask is that there must have been a discussion about this before the changes were made so I'm happy to read this rather than start a discussion on something thats been already talked over.

I only have Mius 43 Gold and can see that disrupted units now have 2/3rd movement as opposed to the 1/2 they used to have. Broken units are 1/3rd still? 



Funnily enough the user pdf in the Mius 43 folder is still the old pdf so the new pdf cannot be in the Gold installer? 

The other strange thing was that when I searched the old user pdf (using disruption/disrupted/movement strings) I could not find anything in the manual which mention movement being halved for disruption? Attack values yes, but not movement? Maybe I didn't look closely enough?

I am a bit confused by your image, so it is hard to reply specifically to your questions. It appears the units are either moving in their turn, although I can't tell how the 7/II unit has moved in that case, or they are the non moving side with FOW off and got assaulted/fired out and thus moved? Is your question regarding the result when the units disrupted or broke when on the non-moving side, or what happens when they move in their own turn?

The changes file should note that the movement cost has changed - at least it does for Smolensk. But for what is left when they are the non-moving side, if that is what this shows, then not having played with FOW off in most cases, I don't know what happened before and don't see how it matters anyway, unless the units can't fire more than 1-2 times at this point?

Sorry I am not much help.

(01-07-2018, 02:22 AM)Ricky B Wrote: [ -> ]I am a bit confused by your image, so it is hard to reply specifically to your questions. It appears the units are either moving in their turn, although I can't tell how the 7/II unit has moved in that case, or they are the non moving side with FOW off and got assaulted/fired out and thus moved? Is your question regarding the result when the units disrupted or broke when on the non-moving side, or what happens when they move in their own turn?

The changes file should note that the movement cost has changed - at least it does for Smolensk. But for what is left when they are the non-moving side, if that is what this shows, then not having played with FOW off in most cases, I don't know what happened before and don't see how it matters anyway, unless the units can't fire more than 1-2 times at this point?

Sorry I am not much help.

Yes I think the picture confuses things. Ignore the picture. 

The question relates to the movement rates during the units own turn. If disrupted a unit can now move 2/3rd's of it normal movement rate. Previously (pre Gold) it was 1/2. 

I actually thought Disrupted units were going to have their full movement rate as the comments made when annoucing the Gold changes just said that Disrupted movement would no longer be halved.....but thats just how I read things sometimes.

All I really want to know was how much discussion there was about making this change? Also Broken units? Was there any thought about changing this from 1/2 movement to something higher? 2/3rds? 

The other thing I brought up was the old use manual? Did it ever actually say that Disrupted and Broken units had reduced movement? I can't find it but maybe I'm not looking hard enough?

Ian,

The catalyst for the change came from an initial posting over at the WDS site and this post at theBlitz; https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards...?tid=70757

Firstly, the key changes are that disrupted units maintain full movement points during day turns (your image above shows units that have already expended movement points) and have 2/3 movement at night.

We decided to include the above change as it had been tested sufficiently in the FWWC series and we could see the merits the posters had made. We obviously did not test this in every released PzC scenario to date, but the FWWC experience convinced us that we would not see significant balancing issues.

Hope that helps explains a little further.

David

Ps not certain Fhil has thanked us for fixing his pet peeve yet! 

Ian,
As David said this change was tested over a long period while we were developing a new FWWC title, so we can say for sure there are no issues associated with the rule change, it was also noted that clever players might actually exploit this change to move their disrupted units forward, so the change also has designed to prevent that unintended use. 

There is no longer any reason for players to lose disrupted units because they are overtaken and trapped due to their reduced movement allowances (under the old system), if retreated promptly their survival chances should improve markedly.

I believe that broken units move full allowance day and night (will check that next game I play).

I listed the changes to the disruption movement mechanics in my "Evolution of the FWWC series" article and I have copied/pasted the relevant section below........... 

Disrupted unit movement allowance change
This change was made to encourage players to retreat from unsustainable positions rather than hang on to allow disrupted units to escape to the rear and often suffer an even greater loss of units cut off and destroyed. To stop players taking advantage of the change to be able to push disrupted units forward an additional terrain cost in MPs to move towards known/spotted enemy units was imposed, (in practise most units will only be able to move a single hex forward).

1) During  DAY turns, disrupted units now have full Movement Points (instead of 2/3rds under the original system)

2) During  NIGHT turns, disrupted units have 2/3 Movement Points (no change)

3) During DAY or NIGHT turns, disrupted units expend 3x terrain cost in MPs to move towards known/spotted enemy units (of course a unit will always be allowed to move one hex, as per standard movement rules)

In another slight tweak to disrupted unit movement when a unit in good order is adjacent to an enemy, and that unit is disrupted by defensive fire during the current turn, its remaining MPs are reduced by 1/2. This keeps units from moving up, getting disrupted and being able to speed away at full speed (or being able to fire twice).

Yes sorry folks nothing to wory about the game works as it should. I've just thrown a couple of Russian units into the minefields to disrupt them on Turn 1 and on Turn 2 some of them were still disrupted and were showing full movement so all is good. 

I was playing Mius 43 solo under Normal Mode and I think I had possibly played it to the first night turn before I started making checks on Disruption effects? Although I've a feeling it was only about Turn 6/7 which would still be daylight? Game starts 06:00 and  Dusk is 22:00? Possibly I moved them after all before checking? 

I'll start again and check Broken as well. 

Thanks for the link. Yes I do remember that thread by Fhil now. I think the changes will improve the game especially the changes which restricts the advancing of disrupted units. Now that players are starting to play Gold games maybe we can get some feedback from them?