Hello all,
I've recently returned to active play after a 10 month hiatus, which occurred for a variety of reasons. During this time I've done a lot of thinking about PzC and JTS games in general. I have come to the conclusion that an optional rule should be created allowing players to turn off the road movement stacking rules.
While in theory this is a cool feature that adds to historical accuracy, in reality its just a giant pain. Essentially, to get the maximum movement from your units, you need to move each unit individually. This is ridiculously labor intensive in larger scenarios/campaigns, adds to play time, and contributes to hand and wrist fatigue. In my mind, the benefits of more realistic road movement hardly make up for the drawbacks in my mind. I would much rather be able to move an entire stack and not worry about it.
I can think of a few different alternatives to how road movement works which would still make overcrowding part of the game. However, I wouldn't dare to presume that I could do a better job than Mr. Tiller. I think the easier solution would be to make road stacking option, so that players can turn it off if they choose. Hopefully, this wouldn't require too much time and effort on the part of JTS.
Anyone else think this idea has merit? I hope that if there is enough support, JTS might consider making this change. After all, many of the optional rules we have now were a result of customer feedback.
(02-19-2017, 11:22 PM)Many Mariuses Wrote: [ -> ]Essentially, to get the maximum movement from your units, you need to move each unit individually. This is ridiculously labor intensive in larger scenarios/campaigns...
Anyone else think this idea has merit?
Um, my suggestion would be to use the existing feature in the game already which deals with this problem quite well! The game already allows you to move entire columns of troops with one click...I'm not sure how much more convenient it could get?
Select a hex with a unit on a road, but DO NOT select the unit itself (only the hex). Next, press the alt key and right-click on where you want the unit to go. PRESTO--the unit and all units behind it in column move to, or at least towards, the indicated hex. You can also do this with a stack (typically with reinforcements, etc.), click on the hex with the stack and do the same alt-right click, and the stack will move out into an orderly column
Generally this feature works great, but you have to be careful in three situations:
1) this feature is designed for linear movement by one unit behind the other, and here it works well. But if you have a big mob of units, or even just two or three units abreast, things can get messy, with units going around in circles. Therefore you have to tidy things up before pressing alt-right mouse button; and
2) sometimes the following units will deviate from the road, either if the road kinks or if for some reason the non-road hex has a lower MP cost than the road cost. During the day this is no problem, but during night turns you can get a nasty surprise if you are playing with the "night disorder" optional rule, which disorders your units if you move off-road at night. This can really mess up you column, so during night turns I often don't use this feature.
3) Finally, when units have different MP allowances, units can get stuck behind other units which run out of movement; not a big issue, you just need to click on each unit to get them past the immobile one...
Anyway, I use this feature extensively and would be very much against playing with no road-stacking rules, which I don't think are mere chrome, but are necessary to reflect road congestion, etc.
I'll make another playability suggestion--use an external hotkey program such as AutoHotKey to add as many hotkeys as you want. I started doing this years ago and now could not imagine playing these games, especially larger scenarios, without additional hotkeys. If you are interested, there is a fairly lengthy thread on this forum on the topic.
(02-19-2017, 11:22 PM)Many Mariuses Wrote: [ -> ]Hello all,
I have come to the conclusion that an optional rule should be created allowing players to turn off the road movement stacking rules.
While in theory this is a cool feature that adds to historical accuracy, in reality its just a giant pain. Essentially, to get the maximum movement from your units, you need to move each unit individually. This is ridiculously labor intensive in larger scenarios/campaigns, adds to play time, and contributes to hand and wrist fatigue. In my mind, the benefits of more realistic road movement hardly make up for the drawbacks in my mind. I would much rather be able to move an entire stack and not worry about it.
Gents:
IMO, managing road congestion and over stacking is one of the many challenges you face as a commander. Effective troop movement including the proper sequencing of unit movement (e.g. In MC, don't stack your WP mech battalions) so other units can utilize road movement, and ensure the right unit is available for follow on combat, is the hallmark of a good commander.
So, yes. This necessitates you move units individually. I never move units by stacks since many "bad" things can happen - Units with different MPs don't stay together, air interdiction triggers on a stack, your unit stack stumbles into defending enemy unit(s), individual units wander off on different routes, etc.
My vote is "No." Road movement stacking rules are essential and should not be made optional.
Wow, I thought there might be more support for my idea than this. Apparently most of you think the road rules are essential, so much so that you oppose the idea of making the rule optional. Fair enough.
76mm, thanks for the tip. It will be handy in some situations. The drawback, of course, is that the AI makes too many questionable decisions for my taste.'
Thanks everyone for participating!
(02-21-2017, 11:52 PM)Many Mariuses Wrote: [ -> ]Wow, I thought there might be more support for my idea than this. Apparently most of you think the road rules are essential, so much so that you oppose the idea of making the rule optional. Fair enough.
76mm, thanks for the tip. It will be handy in some situations. The drawback, of course, is that the AI makes too many questionable decisions for my taste.'
Thanks everyone for participating!
Many Mariuses,
You should try the 'Alt' method as suggested. I find it works really well with essentially everything pathing along the road. It was the first solution I thought of when you posted and I have not seen many complaints about it to date.
David
(02-21-2017, 11:52 PM)Many Mariuses Wrote: [ -> ]76mm, thanks for the tip. It will be handy in some situations. The drawback, of course, is that the AI makes too many questionable decisions for my taste.'
ManyMariuses, I think you're underselling the alt-RtClk feature, I find it enormously useful. Other than in the rather limited circumstances which I mentioned, what questionable decisions does the AI make? Maybe you're confusing it with the "AI move" feature (which IIRC requires you to select the unit rather than the hex), which I never use because the AI does indeed make a hash of things.
Anyway, please play around with Alt-RtClk and get back to us, I'll be curious to learn if it addresses the problem in your view.
76 mm,
The Alt-Right click is simply too clunky to be of practical value for me. As you mentioned in your earlier email, there are a variety of situations where the hotkey doesn't work properly. Unfortunately, I find these situations seem more common in a game than a situation in which units are moving down a relatively straight road. So the hotkey has a rather limited application.
The biggest problem for me, however, is that I have frequently used the hotkey when I had inadvertently selected the unit. This, as you pointed out, causes an "AI move," which is super annoying. This is especially so given that I apparently don't know how to turn off the AI move. The only menu option that I see to turn it off is in the "View" menu, which doesn't seem to actually turn off the AI orders. So, when I click to end the turn, my units start moving in illogical directions, which completely screws up my turn.
Yes, this is operator error on my part, but its significant enough to make the feature virtually useless for me.
(02-23-2017, 11:33 PM)Many Mariuses Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, this is operator error on my part, but its significant enough to make the feature virtually useless for me.
OK, I've had this problem many times, but rather than giving up on a very useful feature, learn how to turn off the dreaded "big arrows".
It is easy: Go to the AI menu, then View/Delete AI Orders, then delete all of them you don't want--presumably all of them. Then you're done.
And I don't see why you have to use alt-rt click only on straight roads, it works fine on crooked roads as well. Even if units venture off-road, it only matters at night and if you are playing with the "disruption at night" (or whatever) optional rule under which units are disrupted if moving off roads at night. And if that is the only problem, turn off that optional rule.
Thanks 76, I'll try that and perhaps the feature will become more useful. It is pretty neat when I can get it to work properly-- which is kind of how I felt when I took my high school physics class! :)