In a naked attempt to increase traffic, I am going to do the grunt work for a Tourney.
Weasel said keep it short and sweat so we will try.
Tourney them'e' is the Iran Iraq war between 1980 and 1988. The war, I hope the tourney doesn't get that big.
I do not want to get stuck with scrambling for replacement players, so no team play. That leaves Last man standing or a round robin. I invite input on that. I lean toward a round robin, with every player playing every scenario on both sides. If I remember my Stats 101 class (almost 50 years ago) that is the number of players minus 0ne? Plus one? I want a scenario because The battles will be short (under 20 turns in most cases) and sweet ( I will adjust the scenarios for variety for each player). That means the units deploy from a entry hex and the v-flags will change position and value. Might even ditch the V-flags for some scenarios.
Because this will put more of a burden on players, I would prefer experienced players. Cut down on the time I spend if I don't need to explain the basics.
I will use these sources for the tourney;
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/w...n-iraq.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War
So far I have sent out in house E-mails for some players and hope to hear back from them this weekend.
I have started on a map of part of Khorramshahr. That would be one battle. There will be a battle of Basra and I expect most of the others to come from various attempts to break the trench warfare of the mid 80's. I am very open to suggestions.
My thoughts on scoring was to keep a running score of 'hard' point totals, then do averages at the end. Some of the scenarios will have point per turn V-flags, which always inflates the scores.
So I am looking for a few good men.
I know nobody here has heard that phrase before so don't swoon.
Hi LB
Good on you for making the effort.
I'll put my hand up for this one.
I agree with Weasel, keep it short and sweet.
Straight knock out is the fastest way but you need even numbers.
8 guys, make 3 battles to get to the winner, quarter, semi then final.
20 turns x 3 = 60 days...add 20 more for delays, 2.5 months to get a result.
Round robin, 6 players, each must play 5 battles to have one game against each possible opponent.
Slower...if one guy leaves...the flow is destroyed.
1 turn per day (if you are lucky), 20 turn battle x 5 = 100 days absolute min time needed...more realistic 140-50 days with set up , delays etc, so 3-4 months to get a result.
I suggest using ELO to rank players in a knock out. Highest ELO should not meet until the final, same way a tennis tourney would be managed.
If you get a sensible format together, you can count me in.
I can usually manage a turn per day, especially if we don't have to deploy and are just entering the map on the march.
Keep it simple, keep the numbers down, (players, map size, turns).
I love no-flag games, happy if that's the case too.
If you want this thing to actually make it to the finish, make it a straight knock out.
Better a short, fast and hard tourney that actually finishes, than a complex, awesome idea that dribbles to a non-conclusion like many prospective tournies have already done here.
Listen to Weasel, his track record of finishing tournies he created is 100% (8 for 8) (same for me too btw, but I am not as prolific!).
Good luck buddy!
Jason / Walrus
Thanks, I have done two tourneys but none this century. I was going to try and cut down the overall playing time through a different technique. By building scenarios I front load the grunt work. Part of that is a matrix listing all the players, their opponents and the scenario they play. That way nobody has to wait for the rest of the team to finish that stage or round. So in theory any player could have ALL the games going at the same time.
To adjust for drops, I want to try scoring by a plus or minus on the average per scenario. Say the average score for Iran is 1100 in scenario #3. If You score 1200, you are plus 100. The highest overall score wins. I'm thinking that will reduce the effects of drops. So if I keep the turns under 20ish, the maps under 40x40 (20x20?) the combined unit count under 100, then the scenarios should play fast.
Last man standing (elimination tournaments) lose players at the end (yeah, well Duh!) Not sure if this will work but it has the chance to. I think that will depend on the number of players. Counting you I'm at 5 right now. I have been sending out E-mails and we will see what sort of response that brings by Tuesday.
I plan on posting a list of players by Thursday and the matrix so they can work out any potential RL issues with their opponent. Then it's on to making scenarios. Wulfir will help make maps. I will use this list and input from players for the scenarios;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:M...93Iraq_War
With the TO&E there, it is pretty easy to select sub formations. Wulfir has a good eye for V-flags, so All I will need to do is set up the entry hexes and order.
Should be able to do several per day.
So while each battle might take two months, they doi not have to be done in sequence. No one battle is dependent on the battle before it.
I am 70% committed to playing, need more information on how exactly it will work as I am not really too interested in playing 5 different people just to get to the knock out rounds. How are you reporting the games on the Blitz?
(11-15-2015, 04:50 AM)Weasel Wrote: [ -> ]I am 70% committed to playing, need more information on how exactly it will work as I am not really too interested in playing 5 different people just to get to the knock out rounds. How are you reporting the games on the Blitz?
No knock out rounds. Everybody plays both sides of a PBEM scenario. Let us suppose 6 players. That will be 6 scenarios. 12 battles. The average of the battles for any one scenario will be the baseline for that scenario. If any one player is over that base line, they get plus points. If they are under, they get minus points. Whoever ends up with the most points wins. That way, no body has to wait for anybody else. Slow players will not hold back fast players. Drops will not affect the tourney that much.
A drop will affect future opponents but since the effect on the average for any one scenario won't be that much so a drop should not twist the standing way out of kilter.
Basically, a 'normal' tournament is a pain in the ass to run. That makes it more work them fun to play. That in turn causes drops which drag down the play and extends out the time to complete the tourney
I'm doing here is trying to figure out a way around those issues.
I haven't really thought about reporting to the ladder. I was going to let those players that care to do what they want to do. I was a control freak in my youth but as an old man I don't sweat it. My theory is we are all adults, doing something we want to do. I see no need for close supervision.
I see my part as winding the toy up ans setting it on the floor. It will go where the players, which is where the adults want it to go.
If you want to do something, ladder wise, go for it.
Projected timeline is list of players populated by Nov. 19. Then 3 hours to build each scenario ( not firm, based on Wulfir cranking out small maps with flags that I can just put deployment stacks on the deployment hexes. That is where my 3 hours per scenario comes from. The last time I worked with Ulf, he was pumping out large (120x120 maps every other day for a Pakistan/India series of battles. So I figure he can match that on smaller maps) So roughly 2 weeks to build the scenarios. I'm not going to test them because the results are going to be averaged. So if a scenario is unbalanced it won't matter since it is unbalanced for everybody. That will put us into early December. Since we are then running into the religious holidays, I figure New Years is an easy reach. The longest battle should take no more then 2 months and since they can be played simultaneously, 6 months seems long enough.
Since the average won't be known until all the battles are finished, the total points won't be known until thr last score is turned in. Not sure if that is a bug or a feature. I can see it either way.
It is a different tourney format, which I see as a feature.
Ok, got 4 players and 2 maybes. This will work best with 5 or 9 players.
volunteers are;
Air Master
Ratel
Wulfir
Roman
Either Walrus or Weasel.
That means 2 scenarios. I have 1 90% done. My editor isn't doing right. I took a preexisting map and fixed it to match Khorramshahr. Sorta. I'm haing troubles getting rid of all the invisible buildings. I though that bug was fixed in version 4.0 Oh well. Maybe it's my install.
The other scenario is Dezful. Both battles have armor, Dezful being the largest tank battle since Kursk.
It looks like the matrix will run like this;
N=Iran, Q=Iraq, 1 is Khorramshahr, 2 is Dezful.
N Simon Ratel Ulf Roman WW <Q
Simon X 1 2 1 2
Ratel 2 X 1 2 1
Ulf 1 2 X 1 2
Roman 2 1 2 X 1
WW 1 2 1 2 X
It looks better on the spreadsheet.
Starting at the top; Simon plays Ratel in battle #1 as Iran. Ratel plays Simon in battle 2 as Iran.
Ulf plays Simon in battle 1 as Iran. Roman plays Ratel in battle 2 as Iraq. And so on and so forth.
Everybody plays 4 battles, 2 scenarios, once from each side. I'm setting the scenarios as 14 and 16 turns. Less then 100 total units. So they should be short. Both these scenarios have limited mobility. In both battles Iran used terrain to restrict the superior mobility of the Iraq's. So they are mostly straight ahead slogging matches. I plan on having the scenarios ready by this weekend. So it might be possible to finish by March.
The time consuming part of scenario building is the testing for play balance. Since these scenarios are built on real world battles, forget it. The last thing a real world general wants is balance.
That is one reason I haven't placed any flags yet. Korr lends itself to a non flag type battle. The problem there is without flags, it is had to average the results. After all, you are not playing each other directly but playing against the average.
So I need input here. To flag or not to flag, that is the question.
Hi; I have had sudden things come up the last few days that are causing some concern, please count me out as SP is last on my mind right now.
Ok, first scenario is done and I'm starting to send out the files. This is a Tournament and uses the Tournament functions. So a quick reminder;
Player 1(hereafter P1) and Player 2(hereafter... yes you guessed it ....P2) arrange for a slot.
Player one loads files into the tournament directory P1 then opens the file, sets the password and tells the game which slot is being used. THen he sends those files to P2. P2 opens them, using the password I will send him. After that it is just another PBEM game.
If you found this clear as mud, the help screen for this is well written.
I have the preferences set on except for fast arty. Those are the setting I had on while building the scenario. It really works better if those are the setting used while playing the game.
Great work LB.
You can count me in, but I am a couple of days away from being able to get turns done.
After the 25th I get my life back and can play 1 turn per day, no worries. I'll do what I can before that date though, so send files through.
I can't work out your player v player 'spreadsheet', sorry...maybe not enough coffee, or I'm dumb as mud.
Can you make one that is a bit clearer...or just send me a list of my oppos and maps.
Any global Tourney Rules?
Cheers!
Jason