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What is the formula for calculating the power of an assault?

For example, a German unit with 190 men, C Quality, and Assault Value of 12 assaults with a value of 142 with no modifiers. If you take 1/10 of the men, which is 19, and multiply it by the assault value, which is 12, you get 228 not 142.

Thanks for the help
RJMI

Sorry, no idea so can't really help. I have tried working through the calcs before and got reasonably close, but don't pay attention and use my gut - mainly do I have superiority in numbers enough to make the losses come out close.

Rick

Was maybe the Optional Rule for "Alternative Assault Resolution" active?
In that case the Hard Attack value would have been used.

(06-11-2014, 12:32 PM)BigDuke66 Wrote: [ -> ]Was maybe the Optional Rule for "Alternative Assault Resolution" active?
In that case the Hard Attack value would have been used.

I know about the hard attack value. I was speaking of the Assault value for soft attack. But even when the hard attack value is used (such as against a Bunker), the numbers do not add up.

Next time you could maybe make a screenshot of the participating units so one can see the values and also deactivate the on-screen results to get a more detailed report about the combat.
At last that helped me to figure out some details in the Napoleonic series were I also had results that didn't match with what I knew of that engine.

From the manual

Aaron



Terrain Modifiers in an Assault

· The maximum hexside modifier of all hexsides between attacking units
and the defending units, is used to modify the attackers assault value.
· If any of the attacking units consist of vehicles, then the terrain modifier of
the defending hex is applied to the attackers assault value. Note: this
modifier applies to motorized and mechanized infantry when they are in
Travel Mode, but not when they are Deployed.

Unit Modifiers
Each attacking and defending unit has a modifier calculated as the sum of the
Quality and Fatigue modifiers. The Quality modifier is:
· +20% for Quality A
· +10% for Quality B
· -20% for Quality D
· -40% for Quality E
· -60% for Quality F.
The Fatigue modifier is
· -10% for Medium Fatigue
· -20% for High Fatigue
· -40% for Maximum Fatigue.
For the attackers, the lowest unit modifier of all the attackers is applied to the
total attacking assault value. For the defenders, the highest unit modifier of all
the defenders is applied to the total defending assault value.

Combined Arms Penalty
When vehicles assault attack into non-Clear hexes, they may suffer from a lack
of infantry support. If there is at least as much attacking supporting infantry as
there is defending infantry, then no Combined Arms Penalty occurs. For
attacking infantry to be considered supporting, it must be stacked with
attacking vehicles and only that portion within 10 times the number of vehicles
is considered. Otherwise, for each attacking hex, the number of infantry and
the number of vehicles times 10 is compared. If the number of infantry
exceeds this adjusted number of vehicles, then no Combined Arms Penalty
occurs. Otherwise, for every 10 defending infantry, or fraction of 10, in excess
of the attacking infantry, the Combined Arms Penalty is applied to the excess
number of vehicles by having them attack at half strength.


When units from differing divisional-level organizations combine in an assault
attack, a modifier of –20% is applied to the attacking forces. While the penalty
applies when corps-level forces from different corps combine in an assault
attack, it does not apply when corps-level forces combine with forces from a
division within that corps.

Special Bocage Rule
When units that consist of vehicles assault into Bocage hexes, their defense
value is halved. This also applies to motorized and mechanized infantry when
they are in Travel Mode, but not when they are Deployed. Note: bocage is a
terrain type common to Normandy in France consisting of small fields bordered
by thick bushes and trees built on low mounds of dirt and rock built up over
centuries of farming. Vehicles had a particularly hard time crossing these
mounds and would be vulnerable to enemy fire while doing so.

Assault Resolution
To resolve the assault, the total assault value and the average defense value
of the attacking units, as well as the total assault value and the average
defense value of the defending units, are calculated with the modifiers
mentioned applied to the assault values. Total assault values are calculated
using the individual assault values of each unit times its strength, with vehicle
and gun units having their strength value multiplied by 10. Average defense
values are calculated by taking a weighted average of the defense values of
the individual units based on their relative strength. Then two Combat Results
are applied: one using the assault value of the attackers against the defense
value of the defenders, and the other using the assault value of the defenders
against the defense value of the attackers. The Low and High Combat Values
used for these Combat Results is determined by Parameter Data (see the
Parameter Data Dialog in the Main Program).

Assault Power Email Three

Pictures are inserted below. They are from the Mius 43 Campaign scenario.

I have a Russian infantry unit assaulting a German unit and show the assault powers. And then I have the same German unit assaulting the same Russian unit and show the assault power. There are not modifiers. Both units are C quality. Both units are on clear terrain. Both units are at 100 meter height. And there are no rivers, obstacles, or fortifications present.

When the Russian unit assaults the German unit the assault power shown is 262 to 142.

When the same German unit assaults the same German unit the assault power shown is 142 to 262.

Here are the stats on the units:

The Russian Unit has 418 men divined by 10 = 41.8. Its assault power is 10. Hence 41.8 x 10 = 410.8 not 262, which is what its assault power shows both when assaulting and when assaulted.

The German Unit has 190 men divided by 10 = 19. Its assault power is 12. Hence 19 x 12 = 228 not 142, which is what its assault power shows both when assaulting and when assaulted.

There can be no random factor in determining these numbers, for they are always the same.
I tried several things to try and come up with the assault power shown but with no successes.

PS: When I assault the German unit with two Russian Units, the second one having 415 men. The German assault power is the same 142 and the Russian Assault power is 524 (262 x 2).



Thanks for your help
RJMI

Okay, if you walk through the assault resolution portion that tazaaron posted, you can figure this out when there are no modifiers, using the information you posted RJMI.

So calculate the total assault value for each side. And you don't divide by 10 - I assume you did that to try to get closer to the values displayed in the game. Doing this, I get 4180 and 2280. Then divide by the other side's defense value, in this case 16 for each side. That comes from this part: "one using the assault value of the attackers against the defense
value of the defenders, and the other using the assault value of the defenders
against the defense value of the attackers.".

Anyway, conducting this division by the defense values gives you, ta da 261.25 and 142.5. I can tell you why one is rounded down and one is rounded up, but you have your values. As a matter of curiosity, are you planning on calculating the odds yourself, as in a board game, before actually deciding to assault? Of course, that wouldn't help much if playing with FOW on, although you could calculate your value for your side, if you knew the defender assault value.

Rick

Indeed, with FOW on and the figures hidden assaulting becomes a matter of experience and gut feel about the resisting power of the unit(s) being attacked, of course it was nice to know when playing a board game you needed a certain dice roll to be successful and that if you got a bad roll you knew why you had failed, but personally I like the uncertainty of the FOW system and have I found that with enough playing experience you see a pattern of success/ failure which allows you to modify your tactics going forward.

So although it is useful to understand how the numbers stack up, successful assaulting like many other aspects of these games is down to experience which can only be gained by playing multiple scenarios with FOW on.

Thanks for your help.

I always play with FOW on. It is more realistic and one of the great advantages of a computer war games over a board war games, although I like board war games also. The calculating of the odds does help to get a general idea of your power and how it relates to defense values. Hence if you have a good idea of the power of a defending unit, you can know more about your chances of success or loss. I agree that an important and necessary thing is to play the game a lot and thus get a feel for what succeeds. From my experience so far, the game is one of the best regarding combat results and many other factors that give a real feeling for moral, experience, fatigue, supply, engineer capabilities, artillery, head quarters command control, etc.

RJMI