I picked up ME 67 yesterday. After installing the most recent patch, the Volcano man art and scenario packs, and Jison's MapMod, I discovered the following issue.
In The Volcano Man scenarios Clear and Sand hexes show a Terrain Combat Modifier of 20%. These values are also present in the Parameter Data Dialog. I would attach screenshots, but I am notified the files are too large.
Is this a typo or an error? I initially thought the modifier might be purposeful (for balance or to depict something abstractly). However, Rough Terrain has only a 5% modifier, and Broken, Forest, and Marsh hexes have a 10% modifier. I may be missing something here, but it seems odd that even the barest sort of cover would be less defensible than open terrain.
The stock scenarios are not affected, but all of the VM "alt" scenarios are. Any ideas?
It may be the case that only Ed can answer this and I bet it might test his memory as he worked on MG67 years ago, while you wait to see if he reads your post it is well worth checking if there is a text or word file included in the download that explains the changes, Ed is renowned for always supplying detailed notes with all his work.
Thanks for the quick reply Foul.
I did check the accompanying text document, but it didn't mention the issue.
The other possibility is that I did something wrong during the installation process. Unfortunately, this would not be the first time for me.
Anyone else seeing the same modifiers in the Alt scenarios? I can live with the 20% modifier if that is what is intended, but if I've done something wrong, then I need to fix the problem.
Sorry, I don't own that title to be able to check it for you.
If you bought and downloaded the game from the JTS webstore recently, your problem may actually be because of MapMod. Some of the titles in the JTS webstore have been updated to version 2.0, and ME67 seem to be one of those. Problem is that MapMod arent fully compatible with version 2.0 because they have made some major changes to the visual side of things.
As soon as they begin to release separate 2.0 updates for those of us with older CD's, I can begin to update the mod.
Better play without MapMod on games with the version 2.0 until then.
Jison
Clarification: the values in the Parameter Data Dialog has nothing to do with MapMod, since it is a visual mod only, but a game with version number 2.0 in combination with MapMod will likely result in alot of missplaced terrain features.
Jison,
Thanks for the assistance-- I'm a huge fan of your work.
However, I purchased the game as a CD through the NWS store (version 1.07).
Nonetheless, I reinstalled the game (without adding MapMod). The same issue occurred with the VolcanoMod scenarios.
Edit: Oh, and this is the second time I've heard about the 2.0 versions. I don't see anything on the John Tiller Store website though. Does anyone have more information on the subject?
I will mail Ed and ask him to drop by.........
Regarding the +20% modifier on clear desert terrain, this is not a mistake. Basically, I was never happy with 0% modifier on desert terrain, feeling that this is something more to 1km "clear" terrain in a woodland environment (where foliage would exist). The +20% was done in all _Alt scenarios in the desert environment to reflect the fact that combat in the open desert is deadlier and units more vulnerable because there really is no place to hide.
Of course if you don't agree with it then feel free to change it, it applies to both sides so it is really a mechanism to make combat more deadly for everyone in the clear terrain, and it makes those otherwise measly -10% brush hexes actually places you really want to be. :)
(02-20-2014, 07:31 AM)Volcano Man Wrote: [ -> ]Regarding the +20% modifier on clear desert terrain, this is not a mistake. Basically, I was never happy with 0% modifier on desert terrain, feeling that this is something more to 1km "clear" terrain in a woodland environment (where foliage would exist). The +20% was done in all _Alt scenarios in the desert environment to reflect the fact that combat in the open desert is deadlier and units more vulnerable because there really is no place to hide.
Of course if you don't agree with it then feel free to change it, it applies to both sides so it is really a mechanism to make combat more deadly for everyone in the clear terrain, and it makes those otherwise measly -10% brush hexes actually places you really want to be. :)
OHHHHH. . . I hadn't noticed that it was a positive % as opposed to a negative percentage. Mind blown! Thanks for the clarification, and I have become a fan of your work as well.
So, to take advantage of the situation, is anyone up for game with someone who demonstrates limited reading comprehension skills?
(02-20-2014, 07:31 AM)Volcano Man Wrote: [ -> ]Regarding the +20% modifier on clear desert terrain, this is not a mistake. Basically, I was never happy with 0% modifier on desert terrain, feeling that this is something more to 1km "clear" terrain in a woodland environment (where foliage would exist). The +20% was done in all _Alt scenarios in the desert environment to reflect the fact that combat in the open desert is deadlier and units more vulnerable because there really is no place to hide.
Of course if you don't agree with it then feel free to change it, it applies to both sides so it is really a mechanism to make combat more deadly for everyone in the clear terrain, and it makes those otherwise measly -10% brush hexes actually places you really want to be. :)
On the WW2-era western desert, I found this interesting passage:
"...the terrain was mostly flat and featureless; dust and sand, churned up by artillery fire and tanks, obscured the battlefield; each side used the other's vehicles and armour, often making identification impossible until too late; radio communications were unreliable; and desert navigation was an art few could master..."
Read more:
http://www.answers.com/topic/western-des...z2txrlw69E
I am wondering if twenty percent might be too harsh given the dust/visibility issue, which is something much more impactful in sandy terrain than hard-packed earth. While the PZC system includes visibility, once you "see" someone you fire at full effect. It is an either/or situation. Granted, dust is something very hard to model. I am wondering if another way to do it in desert campaign games is to increase the random spread of direct fire effectiveness. Sometimes fire will be fully effective, other times not at all, all random to take into account the chaotic impact of dust clouds. For indirect fire, you could import the WW1 campaigns method of advance fire being targeted but falling randomly if no spotting was maintained.
Dust, fuel shortages, heat, water needs - not sure if the system accounts (or can account) for those. But otherwise the armies may be racing around and doing things they historically did not attempt. Movement rates, for example, may be too optimistic.
Lots of discussion has been had about the specific terrain and weather impacts of severe environments, e.g. if PzC was to ever try and model the Pacific New Guinea fighting. I think the desert was in its own way almost as challenging.