In another thread there was talk of restrictions on the use of "z". Said to be a gray area but I think you can get to agree on basic criteria. I never had problems with that until I played with Mr. Z :).
I think we can use two lines of approach.
a) use in attack
b) use in defense
a)
1) can shoot with "z" only with machine guns and artillery support.
2) The infantry can only fire suppression fire on targets that have been identified and covered with smoke. (z is a good countermeasure against the smoke)
This is an important point because it is difficult when a whole company enemy hits you with the z. It becomes a senseless shooting. It could put a maximum number of shots.
b)
1) equal to b 1
2) equal to b1. You can shoot with infantry when this is pinned by enemy artillery fire. Although the enemy is not covered in smoke but is covered by the field.
It's just a suggestion. Together we can make this clear dark.
(02-08-2012, 12:18 AM)roman Wrote: [ -> ]In another thread there was talk of restrictions on the use of "z". Said to be a gray area but I think you can get to agree on basic criteria. I never had problems with that until I played with Mr. Z :).
I think we can use two lines of approach.
a) use in attack
b) use in defense
a)
1) can shoot with "z" only with machine guns and artillery support.
2) The infantry can only fire suppression fire on targets that have been identified and covered with smoke. (z is a good countermeasure against the smoke)
This is an important point because it is difficult when a whole company enemy hits you with the z. It becomes a senseless shooting. It could put a maximum number of shots.
b)
1) equal to b 1
2) equal to b1. You can shoot with infantry when this is pinned by enemy artillery fire. Although the enemy is not covered in smoke but is covered by the field.
It's just a suggestion. Together we can make this clear dark.
Funny Comment Roman about Mr. Z
However i have met more Mr. Xs than Mr. Zs along the years of Steel Panthers battles, i guess that you get used to both seeing and using z and x that i cant picture a PBEM battle without the players using any of those both features
What i do know is that reconaissance by fire (Z) cannot be used in a indifferent manner because although it may reveal enemy units it also has a flip side and that is it wastes firing points that may be very useful against spotted enemy units despite the fact that it also may attract unexpected return fire.
In "S.P.R." it is created rule in the same occasion. :stir:
Let's soon exchange ideas.
From the time I've been playing since I was accustomed to my opponents use the smoke. I think we agree it's worth using the Z so that the game does not become a western-style shootout.
Rule limitation Z-fire in Steel Panthers.
- combat vehicle no limitation;
- artillery, only defence fire up to 30 hexes;
- MG Section (buy 1 any Company = 3 MG Section), AA-unit. Shooting in invisible (has been found out, but has disappeared or tracer shot enemy unit it has found out) enemy unit no more 2 turn;
- small arms same rule as for MG section, AA-unit.
(02-12-2012, 10:03 PM)Epoletov [SPR]. Wrote: [ -> ]Rule limitation Z-fire in Steel Panthers.
- combat vehicle no limitation;
- artillery, only defence fire up to 30 hexes;
- MG Section (buy 1 any Company = 3 MG Section), AA-unit. Shooting in invisible (has been found out, but has disappeared or tracer shot enemy unit it has found out) enemy unit no more 2 turn;
- small arms same rule as for MG section, AA-unit.
Very good.
It's good to limit the number of turns but I think the real problem is not to restrict the types of unit. The problem is to restrict the number of shots. Imagine the disaster that can make a company of motorized infantry with armored vehicles firing suppressive fire with all the ammunition of a turn. Enemy units are pinned at the mercy of the enemy and an exchange of fire with pure z.
I propose that infantry units could make only 1 shot with z in a radius of 10 hexes. If a company engaged in the assault can only make 5 shots with z in total.
Armored vehicles can fire more than 15 hexes all his ammunition. Less than 15 hexes single shot.
The mg can fire all his ammunition with z.
What to do with artillery z-fire ?
(02-13-2012, 04:11 AM)Epoletov [SPR]. Wrote: [ -> ]What to do with artillery z-fire ?
I'd say artillery and morters closer to the front whose primary purpose is to give CS support "Yes".
Dedicated arty/morters for bombarding,further back it would be not wise to use z-fire anyway;)
Still the grey area exists,which gives more suppression to the one who does it first along with arty,to soak up enemy rally abilities, simply because infantry units have so much ammo and some players know there is little worry of running out.
The other spends the entire turn ralling and not much else,only for it to happen again,so clever..NOT!
I recall Cross making a "limited ammo mod" for pbem play sometime back,i did not give it much interest then,but would definately now.
(02-13-2012, 04:11 AM)Epoletov [SPR]. Wrote: [ -> ]What to do with artillery z-fire ?
Personally restrict suppressive fire of artillery. Only the assault guns can fire suppression and would be restricted to "distance" of machine guns.
I've noticed that if the artillery fire with the z shortens the time called for artillery which fired hex. Which would expose the enemy fire continued no chance of recovery.
I want to repeat a concept.
The use of z is valid. The use of z without restriction is also valid in the sense that it is established as a rule among the players.
It is interesting to establish criteria for restriction we use z as an accessory and non primary.
I have a very easy concept for this: play the opponent once and if you don't like the way he plays, never play with him again. That way you finally end up with a list of players who look at the game the way you do and those are the ones who give you the best battles. Applies to z fire and any other issue you may have.