When I saw on the main page that Grigsby's war in the east got a ladder on the blitz I checked out some reviews and videos.
Any PzC/MC veteran have an opinion of this game? On the surface it looks like a wet dream for people like us that like to wargame on an operational scale, but I get the impression that there is way too much micro management involved in the game to make a PBEM game enoyable or even feasible (because of RL time constraints) for a full campaign game.
Being on both ladders, and a custodian for both, I don't know how valuable my opinion is to you - and I would suggest asking on the Grigsby forum also, as many of those players are PzC players also.
Anyway, there is tons of "chrome" and the ability to micromanage, but you don't have to dig down deep, a lot of it can be left to the game engine to handle. the biggest issue that you must handle, outside of moving and fighting, is the Soviet player creating new units - otherwise they won't get anything new, and I have just the question of when to create more posted on the Grigsby forum, hope to get some kind of discussion on that going.
Otherwise, the game is as deep as you want to make it, I ignore most things, probably to my own detriment, until I develop a better feel for what to do wit different things, trying to pick up just a small bit at a time.
That said, I have only played smaller scenarios, including Case Blau right now from both sides, and considering that is half the main front, give or take, my play time in it is very small, must less than I expected and much less than the old War In Russia by Grigsby. Presumably the rest of the front would normally be quiet a lot of the time anyway, so I would say the time involved, unless you really micromanage, would be less than the bigger and mid-sized campaigns of PzC.
I would say some of the "chrome" is really complexity with no relation to reality or history, as most of what happens is very mathematically driven, and adding in chrome may not make the results any more historical than without, if that makes any sense at all.
Rick
Hi Aditia
It does micro manage but you can have the computer do alot of it and I wouldn't want to try a campaign game pbem. I do like trying to see if I can change historic battles and operations like pulling German units back before Operation Bagration and the like. As for the price I would say it's worth every penny if you enjoy that type of game. It runs smooth and it gets a good amount of support from the development team and it has all the info for units and just everything else you could want.
If you had to buy it in a box it would weigh around twenty pounds ;)
All the best
Gary
I would agree with all that Rick said above. The game allows you to play with very little micro management should you so wish. Long term I think that the more micromanaging you do the better you will perform if your making the right choices but it's not essential to your enjoyment of the game. I think the game models the difficult choices of the High command very well. I mainly played German and you really do have decide on Lenningrad Moscow or the South pretty early and you have to go about it right to get anywhere. Fuel and supply are critical.
I like also having all the leaders to choose from putting the people where I want them. I belive there are also some complaints at Matrix about Russian superteams formed with hindsight but that doesn't bother me too much.
Choosing where to send the Panzers is great fun the Blizzard is a German nightmare and the Soviet hoardes really do exist in this thing. That said they are talking of a new patch and some pretty radical rule changes to help play balance I'm not sure where I stand on that yet. My fear is it will become too easy for the Germans to get Moscow in 41 which at the moment in my opinion is almost impossible anyway I rambling so that's enough. The game is expensive as these things go but for me it's been worth every penny.It's not Panzer Campaigns the scale and scope are different but untill John Tiller gives us a Panzer Campaign game that covers the whole East front in the fantastic Panzer campaign style this is the best game of it's type on the Market.
(03-25-2011, 02:22 AM)typhoon Wrote: [ -> ]It's not Panzer Campaigns the scale and scope are different but untill Till John Tiller gives us a Panzer Campaign game that covers the whole East front in the fantastic Panzer campaign style this is the best game of it's type on the Market.
Total War in Europe, East Front! (Much more do-able than PzC, IMHO.)
(03-25-2011, 03:44 AM)Liebchen Wrote: [ -> ]Total War in Europe, East Front! (Much more do-able than PzC, IMHO.)
Your probably right but though I tried this series I never got the same satisfaction from it than I did from Panzer Campaigns. It would need some considerable improvement to come close. PZC on the other hand if they could sort something out with the scale add the production it's the finnished article as far as a great feel for the combat goes. Anyway enough. I've taken this off topic for which I'm sorry and asked for something which is probably never going to happen but we all have our dream games
(03-25-2011, 02:22 AM)typhoon Wrote: [ -> ]... untill John Tiller gives us a Panzer Campaign game that covers the whole East front in the fantastic Panzer campaign style...
Ohh...that would be awesome! Take a lifetime to play...but awesome!!
I put my credit card to work and am now familiarizing myelf with the game :)
Tactical decisions, apart from airpower, are pretty straightforward, altho a good deal of learning is involved there as well.
Everything else is totally new for me, but luckily the manual is only 400 pages /o\
Enjoy yourself...until the Mother of All Blizzards hits. Then start another scenario. They are working on some changes with The Blizzard. It's still enjoyable.
I thought that the PzC handled the bitter winter elegantly and in a straightforward way, and with the parameters file, you can tweak if you don't like.