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I know we're in the waning years of this generation of Modern/Panzer Campaigns, so even minor improvements to the engine will be far and few between.

That said, I'd like to suggest one for consideration in any future Modern Campaign titles, or patches for them: enhancing the recon ability to include SIGINT hits for nearby headquarters detection.

Right now, SIGINT hits occur only between turns, a random parameter that represents theater or strategic-level signals intelligence (and I'm guessing representative of other means of reconnaissance, i.e. imagery). All well and good there.

But modern-day (1985+) recon units routinely deploy with all sorts of tactical signals intelligence capability. Soviet battalion recon units, for example, aren't just BRDMs and BTRs, but also include MTLBu and GAZ trucks with radar and comm direction-finding and jamming equipment. These aren't just attached on convenience, but organic to the TOE.

I'm guessing most, if, not all, NATO forces likewise deploy these capabilities.

Now, some could argue that the recon ability already takes this into account, as these signals assets would detect lower-level, company communications, but not the higher-level comms represented by HQ units. Alas, the problem within the game is that recon units only work within LOS, right?

So, just wondering: is it possible, advisable, or feasible to include with the recon spotting capability the ability to discover within a scenario-defined radius enemy HQ units, even those without a LOS, to reflect this tactical signals intelligence capability?

(BTW, I ask in part not to add chrome, but simply to continue to incentivize players to use recon assets appropriately).

OK Dave - I'll bite.

How do you see it working?

First of all it has to fit for MC and PzC, although presumably MC would have greater ability.

The game already knows which units are defined as RECON.

The Game engine already has an Optional Rule for Recon spotting so it is a GIVEN that anything designed would be an have to be an ADD ON to this. That is there would be no redefining which units qualify.

There is also a MENU under the game Command Menu for RECON Spotting, so I assume you would select the recon unit, and exercise the command as you do now.

...so far everything is the same

What next?

Is the a PARAMETER added - one for each SIDE, if ZERO, there is no change from the existing rule.

But if the VALUE is not 1, then what happens?

A signet search goes out to a radius of the value an a second side Percentage is applied to ANY unseen unit within this radius?

Is the radius modified for A and\or B Quality units?
or is the radius constant and the chance of the die roll is increased.

Is this search applied to ALL units within the radius or only those outside of LOS.

So I think we have a new PDT line

a b AA BB
where a = side one 0 for OFF and x for a Radius
b = side two 0 for OFF and x for a Radius
AA = percentage of ALL enemy (or enemy not in LOS) being shown as ? units for side one
BB = same as AA for Side two.

What values would you propose for Europe in 1985
What values on the Russian Front for say 1943

...and what about ...dare I say it - if we had something like this would people set it so they could take advantage of their opponent? Would it create suspicion as to "HOW could my opponent have seen that arty unit and hit it with an Airstrike - impossible - he must be cheating"

It does open a real can of worms - but do guys really think something like this would work?

Glenn

(11-16-2010, 02:31 AM)DaveK Wrote: [ -> ]I know we're in the waning years of this generation of Modern/Panzer Campaigns, so even minor improvements to the engine will be far and few between.

I hope we are not in the waning years, lot more battles to fight yet:-)

Quote:I know we're in the waning years of this generation of Modern/Panzer Campaigns, so even minor improvements to the engine will be far and few between.

Just out of curiosity- based upon what info? I'm just wondering where I missed someone actually connected with the development ever saying that -so I don't find assumptions to be particularly relevant.

(11-17-2010, 12:33 PM)Glenn Saunders Wrote: [ -> ]OK Dave - I'll bite.

How do you see it working?

Actually, your suggestion kind of hits the nail on the head. :)

For simplicity's sake (ha!), I'm envisioning this only applying to enemy headquarters units, i.e. it's the same thing as the inter-turn SIGINT capability, only it's also triggered by the recon spotting rule.

For example, a unit tagged with the recon ability triggers recon spotting. As now happens, there is a chance that any/all enemy units within the LOS are spotted. This represents Mark I eyeball visual reconnaissance, all is good.

On top of that, however, there is a chance that an enemy HQ unit within radius X is also spotted, or at least question-marked. This represents tactical SIGINT.

I think this would only be a MC rule. I'm not familiar enough with World War II signals intelligence, but I don't think that *armies*, let alone recon units, at the map and time scale represented in the Panzer Campaigns would have anything that useful, thus leave the recon spotting rule the same for them.

With MC, it's different. Then again, I couldn't tell you what specific tactical SIGINT capabilities existed in circa 1985 recon units... I just know that they existed, for both NATO and WP (at least Soviet) units. I also admit to not knowing what that "X" variable is for the operational radius... my WAG thinks 10-20 km (we're talking ground vehicles and mast antennas) but I don't know for sure.

Anyway... just tossing it out there. I'm okay with the current inter-turn SIGINT hits, but again, that's pretty generic, and represents a strategic capability, i.e. it ignores the tactical capabilities units had.