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I am in the process of trying to learn the HPS PC series and I have a question about ZOC.

In the following picture you will see my units in purple and I have not moved in the last two turns. During the enemy's last turn, he moved up and isolated my three units (red box hex). I am confused has to how he was able to do this. If my units had established ZOC first, shouldn't that prevent him from moving adjacent to my units and isolating and cutting them off?



Thanks

(10-05-2010, 12:07 AM)Checkmate King 2 Wrote: [ -> ]I am in the process of trying to learn the HPS PC series and I have a question about ZOC.

In the following picture you will see my units in purple and I have not moved in the last two turns. During the enemy's last turn, he moved up and isolated my three units (red box hex). I am confused has to how he was able to do this. If my units had established ZOC first, shouldn't that prevent him from moving adjacent to my units and isolating and cutting them off?



Thanks

It looks like the unit to the south could have moved in from the hex south east of it.

While DRAW likely has yoru answer correct - keep on mind that there are three different ZOC conditions in the game and one Optional Rule - so showing one screen shoot and asking HOW IS this without knowing CASE 1, 2 or 3 is a best guess.

Glenn

Your opponent could have achieved this isolation very easily by moving his units in the directions i have indicated, once their ZOC extend into the hex's with the X in them the isolation was complete. ;)


If you didn't think he could do this it is obvious you need to try to understand how the ZOC rules work, in this case there is no restriction to moving into a enemy ZOC from a hex that does not contain a enemy ZOC.

I should also say that if you can place a friendly unit in either hex with a X you can extricate your stack at the cost of their full MP allowance as under the normal ZOC rules (case 2) units can move from one enemy ZOC to another if the hex being moved into is occupied by a friendly unit.

(10-05-2010, 12:07 AM)Checkmate King 2 Wrote: [ -> ]If my units had established ZOC first, shouldn't that prevent him from moving adjacent to my units and isolating and cutting them off?

From your wording, I suspect that you may be misunderstanding the ZOC rule. It does not matter who establishes a ZOC first. Enemy units can assert a ZOC simultaneously, over each other's hexes and over mutually controlled, yet unoccupied hexes (i.e. no-man's land).

Just because a hex is in an enemy unit's ZOC does not prevent me from moving my unit into that hex. If it did, then there would rarely be any combat.

As a matter of fact, you are in apparent danger losing that isolated stack of units completely, if you don't follow Foul's advice immediately. This would come from the unit on the south edge's moving southwest and then north, rendering your isolated units un-rescue-able. This result would be because, while you may usually move your units into an enemy ZOC, you cannot move from an enemy ZOC directly into another enemy ZOC. (The sole exception, as Foul pointed out, is from a friendly-occupied enemy ZOC to another friendly-occupied enemy ZOC, which you wouldn't have.)

Please accept my apology if I have misunderstood your question.

Thanks guys for your responses & suggestions.

In my PBEM game, the optional ZOC rule is not selected.

Foul, I really like your use of the red arrows and x's. It makes it very easy to understand what you are explaining! What program do you use to be able to do that?

Yes, I agree my isolated units are in a bad position! I am being attacked by a force of greater superior strength and I don't have any air or tank support. So I been doing a "strategic withdrawal" and have been forced to have my engineer's blow any heavy bridges to prevent the enemy using them for their armor. I just had to blow the last heavy bridge in the face of the enemy. The enemy will still be able to use the streams and fords to get across however, their tanks will be forced to take the "scenic route" to get to their objectives!

So far, its been a very enjoyable experience and hopefully, I can digest this game system so I can have even more enjoyment with it.

Thanks Again

(10-06-2010, 09:25 AM)Checkmate King 2 Wrote: [ -> ]Foul, I really like your use of the red arrows and x's. It makes it very easy to understand what you are explaining! What program do you use to be able to do that?

I used MS paint that comes free with all of their OS systems (i believe), it is very simple to use once you have played around with the tools a bit. ;)

Paint is a great little program. I do about two thirds of my work in it because it's easy to use and loads so much faster than Photoshop.

(10-06-2010, 09:25 AM)Checkmate King 2 Wrote: [ -> ]I been doing a "strategic withdrawal" and have been forced to have my engineer's blow any heavy bridges to prevent the enemy using them for their armor. I just had to blow the last heavy bridge in the face of the enemy. The enemy will still be able to use the streams and fords to get across however, their tanks will be forced to take the "scenic route" to get to their objectives!

Well, actually, those Russians may have bridging engineers, too, and if they are able to build their bridges, well their tanks can cross engineer bridges, so don't let your guard down...

(10-08-2010, 05:52 AM)Liebchen Wrote: [ -> ]Well, actually, those Russians may have bridging engineers, too, and if they are able to build their bridges, well their tanks can cross engineer bridges, so don't let your guard down...

Just when I was starting to feel good about my defensive strategy! :bang:

LOL Thanks for the heads up! I am praying now that hopefully Glenn "forgot" to add those Russian engineers into this battle!! If he did add them in, then I better start calling for some help!

Thanks