Vesku Wrote:I remember reading somewhere that one broken piece of track could be repaired by the crew on field in just 15 minutes. That's of course one of the easiest possible immobilization cases but like Dan said, stuck vehicles and lightly damaged should have a chance to return to duty.
That's quite possible, especially if somebody keeps shooting at you while you do so. Heck, I would do it in less than 5 under those circumstances
I think in the game, it would make it necessary to have different levels of immob, in order to determine the fixability of it. At this stage I believe the game sees it as either immob or not.
WaW series has a chance to fix immod, is the code different at this point?
I don't know. Maybe I was wrong.
Perhaps not, it's these little things that differ between those two.
yeah...like smoke never disappearing in WAW...or so I have heard.
That seems just silly to me.
Just a reminder that the original code for both game types (CAMO and WAW) was written in C over ten years ago.
I have it on good authority that it is basically spaghetti and that even a minor change to the code can cause crazy results in other parts of the game.
The designers therefore have opted to make small changes when they can only after testing as much as they can to check the results.
Trying to set up something like different levels of immob at this point in the game's history might seem like an easy thing to suggest...but I would imagine that it would be many man hours just for testing.
However as far as SPCAMO games go...if you bring up these things on the SPCAMO forum at Shrapnel...I am sure you would get many opinions, mostly in favour.
That is the forum the designers watch and interact with...so if you are really interested in seeing a change made, or at least finding out why it is not possible, visit the forum.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=78
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=139
Many things have changed, added to the games through suggestions on these forums.
I personally am very happy that immobs are for the duration of the game in PBEM.
It makes you think more about where you are going and not just charge around the map willy-nilly.
Having said that, i just managed to immob an apc in the first turn of a game through sheer stupidity. The troops now have a long walk to get to the fight :(
Carry on...
There have been huge duscusions on this by people far more knowledgeable than me including tankers.
The minimum time I think any quoted they had ever seen known was nearly an hour for a minor repair. This assumes know what you are doing have the part & the tools & no one is interfering with you. Said even changing a tyre takes time over half an hour by the time you drive to somewhere safe with hard ground to do it, while under fire in your dreams. To repair a tank needs no enemy presence & for a repair vehicle to reach you with the correct tools & guys that know what they are doing. You can service/fix your car but lack of experience correct tools means it takes you at least 4 times as long as a mechanic, in a tanks case no specialist tools cant even attempt most things.
On plain old getting stuck minimum time is a couple of hours 4+ is more common & this does not take into account the draging vehicle having to turn up. It takes a long time as it has to get in position without getting stuck itsself. If you think of a tank stuck in mud it has sunk so its belly forms a great seal with the mud & weighs 60 tons, its a bit harder than trying to pull your boot out. Its very rare rescue vehicles can get in best position to free it for fear of getting stuck to so often off axis rescue, conclusion is therefore 2 hours minimum in ideal conditions for any mobbility problem 5+ much more likely.
Walrus Wrote:I personally am very happy that immobs are for the duration of the game in PBEM.
It makes you think more about where you are going and not just charge around the map willy-nilly.
Having said that, i just managed to immob an apc in the first turn of a game through sheer stupidity. The troops now have a long walk to get to the fight :(
Carry on...
I also don't have a problem with it for PBEM. My question came purely from a campaign game's point of view. As you will know, an immob vehicle has to be fixed for the next battle and it cost points. If you could fix it beforehand it would be nice and you could use those points for something else. Will see after Christmas if I am going to bother to ask the question on Shrapnel's site. It's not a big deal to me, I just wanted to know if I could or could not do it. :)
Vesku Wrote:I remember reading somewhere that one broken piece of track could be repaired by the crew on field in just 15 minutes. That's of course one of the easiest possible immobilization cases but like Dan said, stuck vehicles and lightly damaged should have a chance to return to duty.
Hi Vesku,
If this is right then there's clearly a case for in-game repair for some types of immobility. I've never looked into the whole track repair thing, but I'd guess a 15 minute repair was a damaged track while stationary, because a moving tank leaves track spread across the countryside
Ratel,
If you do bring this issue up at Shrapnel, I highly recommend you search the forum first and read previous discussions about this issue.
Merry Christmas All...
Cross
Quote:I've never looked into the whole track repair thing, but I'd guess a 15 minute repair was a damaged track while stationary, because a moving tank leaves track spread across the countryside
As said no expert but would think need ideal conditions to repair it quickly, just think about working on something normaly.
Possible problems
As you stated probably collect track & refeed it if not its just been hit with a lot of energy as in shell mine etc, can you get to the damaged bit without driving off it.
Determine how much track is damaged & try to dismantle from there that alone could take 10mins because if try pulling a locator pin out & that section of track is twisted even minutely it aint going to come out. If any dirt sand whatever got in again taking it apart becomes not wheres the WD40 but get out the blow torch, also handy to clear any other damage from the running gear. The list of possible problems just goes on & in terms of relating to how many times have you taken on a simple 5 min job only to be swearing at it 30 minutes later. And that has not just been blown up had the shearing force of tank try & twist it or been accompanied by the sound of incoming.
In the workshop with a new track probably quite possible in the field after abuse I am guessing very doubtfull.
I would think the procedure is something like get the break to a position you can work on it possibly requiring removal of part of a side plate etc, deal with any other damage, release tension so can get it on then reset tension so it does not fall off. Sounds a lot to do in 15 mins even if everything comes apart as it should. 1 hour is more normal I would think if you want it to stay on.
Decided to have a quick look on the web heres a link to Tiger restoration where he says putting tracks on is not easy. Thought link might intrest some of you anyway.
http://www.tiger-tank.com/secure/journal13.htm
Found a few refs to Tigers & while a simple job like replacing a thrown track seems quicker than modern equipment still not quick 4-12 hours I found.
Modern tanks heres a link both tracks thrown note the time & need for arc welding gear
http://www.military-art.com/mall/more.php?ProdID=15268
Or M1A1 one track thrown 15 hours.
Stuck in mud can easily be longer.
Its a lot faster to change a major component, engines gearboxes etc etc take under 15 minutes running gear has lots of moving parts & is not modular.
Possibly something like a BT (Christie design) tank with simple suspension & designed to run off its tracks it may be possible but on the whole Web supports what tankers say its a long job.