We had a situation and some comments a couple of years ago in regard to a contestants prior knowledge in a given scenario.
One of the players informed the other that they had some experience with the scenario. The contestant did not object to this prior knowledge and proceeded with the game.
Around move 6-8 the person with the prior knowledge had stationed some armor in close proximity to a reinforcement area of his opponent.
His opponent took offense to this and posted a message on the Blitz site?
The person having informed his opponent of his prior knowledge offered a "no contest" as a method of solving the matter. I do not recall the eventual outcome of the game and it is probably because the matter was settled between the two contestants.
Now, my question, is it unfair to attack a reinforcement area?
Furthermore, is it, given prior experience with a scenario, unfair to plot artillery in certain areas of the map or air forces?
I do not feel that there is only one way to win a scenario. If there is, then the scenario has some major faults. Every time I play a scenario (having played it before) I've noticed that my new oppoent doesn't alway follow the strategy of my previous opponent and I cannot repeat what may have been a successful strategy.
Short answer Pat..NO
First point...there is a finite, not huge, number of scenarios......now probably a lot less than before as I understand many of the old Talonsoft scens cannot be played on newer OS. I for example can open the map, org and scn files of my Talonsoft disks, but I get an error message when I try to actually play a scen on my XP.
This means that many experienced Blitzers have prior experience of a given scn, especially the "balanced" ones. Unavoidable. But, sometime in the next 2-300 years, Guberman and I will have played them all. Think of the prior knowledge we will build up!!
Second....sounds like a good excuse to avoid a beating. Study of the map might well suggest likely reinforcement routes. Along the valley road rather than through the mountain swamp usually makes sense to me, and if I'm wrong I pay the price in ladder points.
Third...I think a majority of our scens are historically based, therefore knowledge of reinf routes is in the public domain. Should we only play hypotheticals?
Fourth...Chess, which has, I believe, less than 100 possible openings, has the total of legal positions estimated to be up to 10 to the 50th power. And that is starting with 32 pieces on a 64 square board! How many in a division size game, 100x100 map, 35 turns?
I think this bloke was what down our way we call a 'whinger'. Someone in a losing situation trying to avoid it by seeking sympathy. Try it in our Navy...you might get offered a miniature throwaway violin, perhaps with the suggestion you throw it over the side without remembering to let go, or you might get lucky, ask a nice, kind man like me for sympathy, and be gently advised in a pleasant, kindly way where to find it............
In the dictionary, between sh*t and syphilis!
I generally agree with KKR.
It reminds me of a battle I had once where my opponent told me that he had my reups hex in his sights and I had one move to get them out the way before he started shooting (which I thought was jolly decent of him)... so I used that move to attack the bastard
cheers
Paul
Montana Grizz Wrote:Now, my question, is it unfair to attack a reinforcement area?
No. This may very well happen without having played the scenario before.
You can't really have rules against prior knowledge. If a player is able (and willing) to use prior knowledge as an exploit to an automatic win, then the scenario is poorly designed and he's perhaps not someone you want as a regular opponent..
Agree with KK too.
So a prior knowledge of the scn must be used in limited way, but not to take adventage doing unrealistic actions like to destroy a reinforcement in the entry hex.
I usually test games of my own design with other guys and I know where the enemy forces are deployed, but final score is uncertain,because each player play in different way.
There is a topic in military:A tactical plan will be over in the first enemy contat.
Cheers.
Montana Grizz Wrote:Now, my question, is it unfair to attack a reinforcement area?
IMHO - No! :cool:
I look at it this way. If I have played well enough (or sneaky enough? :eek1:) to manuever my combat units into my opponent's rear areas - where many reinforcement entry hexes are located - why not attack his just arriving units before they can enter the battle proper?
I believe skilled and experienced players can reason out where possible enemy reinforcements will arrive on the map - usually along paved roads in blocked LOS terrain.
All's fair in love and war? :whis:
Montana Grizz Wrote:Furthermore, is it, given prior experience with a scenario, unfair to plot artillery in certain areas of the map or air forces?
Again, IMHO - No! :cool:
Skilled and experienced players can figure out likely terrain and map areas where his opponent will mass for an attack, conceal artillery, and truck in reinforcements. Why not give these suspected areas an artillery and/or air strike? :chin:
Mwest wrote:
Quote:I look at it this way. If I have played well enough (or sneaky enough? Eek1) to manuever my combat units into my opponent's rear areas - where many reinforcement entry hexes are located - why not attack his just arriving units before they can enter the battle proper?
Sure, but don't do it from a previous knowledge. You can find a entry hex during the game. It's a prize to fighting in rear areas, but if you strategic plan is based in unfair knowledge of enemy deployment.?? is this legal?
Cheers
Chema
I always inform my opponent if I've played a scenario before. My brother and I started playing back in the late nineties starting with EFII scenarios. We played them in the level order they came up. We're now at level 10 (we'll be here awhile). So when an opponent picks EFII, most likely I've played it. WF, I've probably played half of them and maybe more.
What can you do? If I remember the scenario and I know where reinforcements enter, you bet I'm going to shell it, but it usually isn't that easy. Reinforcement routes are usually pretty far back and out of LOS.
I suppose the fairest way to handle it if the opponent really cares (so far no one has) is to tell them to open the file from both sides and get a look at what the opponent has and where it's coming from. Then play, kind of like a mirrored game. Personally I don't like knowing, but at least the person you're playing wouldn't be able to complain in the end if they lose.
Feldgeneral Hoth Wrote:Sure, but don't do it from a previous knowledge. You can find a entry hex during the game. It's a prize to fighting in rear areas, but if you strategic plan is based in unfair knowledge of enemy deployment.?? is this legal?
Why unfair knowledge? There is no intelligence at the war? Or getting information from it you consider illegal?
Dmitriy
Scud Wrote:I suppose the fairest way to handle it if the opponent really cares (so far no one has) is to tell them to open the file from both sides and get a look at what the opponent has and where it's coming from. Then play, kind of like a mirrored game.
Well I was lucky to get from my decent opponents such a nice advice :) Is there anyone who starts an unfamiliar scenario without opening and studying it in advance?
:chin:
Dmitriy