It is about scouting. Why is this coming to some one's mind to use trucks for spotting? In my case I am playing a scenario without any recon units. No armored cars, nor motorcycles, nothing. My opponent has 4 Armored Car platoons and a bunch of HTs. It is naturally for me to look for some recon decisions. What am I going to do, use transports? It is not realistic and against ROEs. Use a whole platoon of 40 men for just observing some part of the map on my flank were there is less then 1% chance of coming action? Not a wise idea at all.
Here is this thought is crossing my mind. Why there is no like recon squads or even smaller group of 3-4 men special trained for reconnaissance? I believe that every more-less valuable force in warfare has them. Regiments for sure. And this is not like something you can spot from long range. Those guys are professionals. You will be hardly able to spot them even from the next hex.
Well, I am sure this is not my idea and such an opportunity already was discussed earlier. But since it is not in the game, I assume it was rejected. And if so, my question is: what was the reason for it's rejecting?
I hope this question will not bring more banning in our peaceful place :rolleyes:
Dmitriy
Skryabin Wrote:It is about scouting. Why is this coming to some one's mind to use trucks for spotting? In my case I am playing a scenario without any recon units. No armored cars, nor motorcycles, nothing. My opponent has 4 Armored Car platoons and a bunch of HTs. It is naturally for me to look for some recon decisions. What am I going to do, use transports? It is not realistic and against ROEs. Use a whole platoon of 40 men for just observing some part of the map on my flank were there is less then 1% chance of coming action? Not a wise idea at all.
Depends on the scenario, of course. Regardless, an officer will use what they have to the best of their abilities to perform the tasks at hand.
Skryabin Wrote:Here is this thought is crossing my mind. Why there is no like recon squads or even smaller group of 3-4 men special trained for reconnaissance? I believe that every more-less valuable force in warfare has them. Regiments for sure. And this is not like something you can spot from long range. Those guys are professionals. You will be hardly able to spot them even from the next hex.
With the 1.04 UPDATE, the Germans have Brandenbergers and the Russians have Patrol/Scout and Razvedchiki units (both are 1SP -- 4-6 men). All are more difficult to spot.
Since they are new, most scenarios do not have them.
Jason Petho
Jason Petho Wrote:With the 1.04 UPDATE, the Germans have Brandenbergers and the Russians have Patrol/Scout and Razvedchiki units (both are 1SP -- 4-6 men). All are more difficult to spot.
Since they are new, most scenarios do not have them.
Jason Petho
WOW! Thank you for information.
I was on a right path :)
Dmitriy
It is fine the way it is, but I have always thought that a dedicated recon unit should have some increased spotting abilities.
Filthy-Missile Wrote:It is fine the way it is, but I have always thought that a dedicated recon unit should have some increased spotting abilities.
I agree, although it is a matter of finding something that most, if not everybody, likes.
...and do people want another optional rule?
Since the units are harder to spot, that gives them theoretical longevity on the field, allowing them to spot longer without being seen.
Jason Petho
I agree with you that many modern armies have small recon elements, specially trained, as part of their infantry units.
Remember, however, that this game is fundamentally historical.
Whether such special recon elements were available in all WWII armies is doubtful. The US Jeep Scout Section is one, but I can't think of others. It also may be a game limitation in that the platoon is the smallest element we have.
In real life, you use what you have. Same in the game.
I agree Rod,
I have used small armored units as spotters, small tanks and occasionally larger tanks when I am the Germans.
If the scenario provides for no air attacks, but provides AA units, these can be used as spotters.
You use what you chose.
Salud,
Pat
Jason/KK/Missile:
Good points all.
Any dedicated units that provide spotting and are inherently difficult to reveal will be powerful units indeed. I'd say be careful and use them with with malice aforethought....lol...before you start tossing handfuls in to any new scenario...
Considering the brew up we've had over some of new/optional rules lately...this one could definitely polarize the faithful once again.
Considering the maturity and compassion I see omnipresent amongst our forums I'm sure the debate will be handled with the quiet grace and dignity our moderators have come to enjoy. Not to get totally off topic here, but I'd like to get serious for a moment. I consider every member a friend I haven't met yet. I consider the one's I have met worthy of my respect and I strive to earn their respect in return. I do this through my actions and my work, not my words. Words can wound though, and sometimes the damage done can't be undone. Nuff said about that, peace to all and back on topic.
Still...a nicely shot up one or two strength infantry unit with all OP Fire turned off (the OP fire setting is only a personal voodoo ritual of mine...not sure that really effects their chance of being spotted from across the map...lol...) have always had the type of effect Jason's new units will have and they've been used with lethal effect for years.
As long as the new dedicated scout units reveal when you have the AP's to enter their hex...I imagine they will play within the context and spirit of the game.
Jason...don't the new sniper units play similiarly?
I believe recon in the CS has always taken on two distinct forms. The first being offensive/first side recon. That has been affectionately described by many as "recon by death", "blind man's recon", "private parts in a meatgrinder" or my personal favorite, "let's go find a minefield and tap dance", etc., etc. (:O) First side or offensive recon is deadly in this game and often as not those AC's or halftracks you send out to recon do it by getting shot and eliminated. Which...while hard on your retirement plan...is recon...lol...
Second side or defensive recon is more suitable to the types of units your creating, where you can set them in good defensive terrain where they will spot the advancing attacker and remain hidden for some number of turns.
As long as the time honored rule of "movement within enemy LOS automatically reveals ALL units" is held true...the game will never really possess the type of recon units that can effectively scout on first side.
I'm OK with that.
As KK says, that is probably historically accurate for WWII.
What did they have KK? All I can recall for the Yanks were the Marine Scout Sniper units, which were in their infancy during WWII. Russian units seem to be born to recon with their in-game inherent stealth eh?
Regards,
Dan
K K Rossokolski Wrote:Whether such special recon elements were available in all WWII armies is doubtful.
The Germans had the Spähtruppen.
The Soviet Razvedchiki were specially trained as deep reconnaissance units.
The Finns had the Erna long range recce groups.
Jason Petho
Dan Caviness Wrote:Jason...don't the new sniper units play similiarly?
Yes, true enough. As with the other units, they are not present in most scenarios as they are new.
But available for new designs!
Jason Petho