08-21-2009, 01:53 PM
Gents,
Here we are then. The book says this and others say that...
We will assume 6 minute turns here...from a stock scenario by D. Bevard...RS "Edson's Ridge"
quote..."D. Bevard
13 September, 1942
Edson's/Bloody Ridge, 5km SSE of Lunga Point, Guadalcanal: NIGHT
[Best played as Axis] By 12 September 1942, the main Japanese
striking force on Guadalcanal, under General Kawaguchi, was in
position to thrust once again at the American marines surrounding
Henderson Field. This time the objective was a group of low hills
south of the airfield that would become known forever as Edson's
or Bloody Ridge! The 1st Marine Division headquarters was well
aware that a new attack was pending and had begun strengthening
the garrison around Lunga Point and the perimeter outposts. Dug-in
along Bloody Ridge were the remnants of the 1st Raider and 1st
Parachute Battalions combined into a composite formation under
Colonel Edson and backed by the 2nd/5 Marines in division reserve
near the airfield. Following probing attacks on the night of
the 12th, General Kawaguchi launched the main assault just after
dark on the 13th with the 1st/124 and 3rd/124 Infantry Battalions
followed by Major Tamura's 2nd/4 Infantry Battalion. Advancing
uphill against heavy concentrations of artillery, rifle and machinegun
fire the Japanese fought their way forward, determined to shatter
the American position before reinforcements could arrive. Note:
Special thanks to Tom Herrschaft for the use of his Guadalcanal
map."
...as described. His OOB and deployment includes the entire Japanese attacking force for the entire battle. I will contrast the scen with RB Frank's "Guadalcanal", I believe to be "The Tome" on that event, crosschecked with the "Official History of the USMC" timelines...[I will note: None of the combatants are in contact at the beginning of the scenario...so I think it safe to conclude it begins with the main Japanese attack, commencing at 2230 hrs. That would make it as short as possible.]
Battle on 13 Sep 42, Japanese maneuvering to position 11-13 Sep 42.
13 Sep 1942:
1630 hrs: Japanese attack US engineers and dislodge (1) co. and continue to maneuver for position. [0 hrs]
2100-2200 hrs: US arty opens, in earnest, against the deploying Japanese. [0-2200 hrs; 6 hours and 30 minutes = 65 turns]
(I will disregard the previous 65 turns, or any fraction of them, and assume that Bevard was not including them.)
so...
2230 hrs: The Japanese open a full scale attack, by all units. [0 hrs]
...there is no landmark for time until 0200 hrs after the US have been driven from their first positions and redeploy on their second line...
0200 hrs: A "massive" Japanese mortar barrage on 1st Parachute and the second line..."drenched the ridge". [0-0200 hrs; 3 hours and 30 minutes = 35 turns]
0300 hrs: US troops fall back again to their third line. [0200-0300 hrs = 10 turns]
0400 hrs: The first US reinforcements arrive on line. [0300-0400 hrs = 10 turns] (here deserves a comment: 55 turns after the Japanese "main attack" [the one described in the scenario] US reinforcements arrive and the Japanese attack begins to stem. Bevard has them arriving on turn 8 = 48 minutes after the onslaught began)
0530 hrs: Small Japanese units arrive at the edge of Henderson Field (which is not included on the map, just barely)...and they were disposed of. [0400-0530 hrs = 15 turns] (how long it took to eliminate them, is unmentioned in time, specifically...however, an interesting note, there are no exit hexes for the Japanese, in this scenario...hmmm)
Lets review: 65 turns can be disposed as deployment, I think most will agree.
55 turns from the beginning of the Japanese attack until the US began receiving reinforcements.
15 turns from US reinforcements until the Japanese reached Henderson Field.
Let us delete the first 65 turns and the last 15 turns...and make a scenario out of it...as is often done by me, at least.
We are left with a 55 turn scenario, and we do know that the US reinforcements arrived on or about turn 55. Obviously the scenario needs to be longer than 55 turns for the US reinforcements to have any effect. Let's say 5 turns, just to keep it short. So 60 turns, calculated.
Our calculation indicates that the US reinforcements arrive, beginning on turn 55, while the designer has them come in on turn 8...roughly a .85 compression of time [in retrospect, possibly an unhistorical attempt to balance the scenario?] . Lets look at our 60 turn total scenario time limit...and consider the designer's turn length of 21 turns. That comes out to a .65 compression of time.
so...from this example I will repeat that the published "time" scale can empirically be demontrated to be subjective.
I like this series because it was the first, I ever found, to put the WF, EF and RS on a common scale (subjectively described, of course). I used to listen to some very smart people tell me that the WF/EF could not be reconciled with RS. I knew that to be balderdash and I recognize it as a strength that CS has done nearly the impossible, by putting the one and together. But to not "recognize gray, but only understand black and white...if by choice is truely ignorant, if by necessity...can only be described as "color blindedness". No insult, at all, is intended, I admire all of us...but to repeat rote dogma is not helpful at all, it only states an oppinion. Like warts, we all have them...but oppinion does not describe a round globe...and used as such is unproductive, in this genre...as it provides only color, not fact...
Maybe this example, which can be replicated over and over and over again...is not new to a "subset" of designers...but was intended by the creators of CS, from the beginning. I'll let the evidence speak for itself.
Cheers to all
Curt
Here we are then. The book says this and others say that...
We will assume 6 minute turns here...from a stock scenario by D. Bevard...RS "Edson's Ridge"
quote..."D. Bevard
13 September, 1942
Edson's/Bloody Ridge, 5km SSE of Lunga Point, Guadalcanal: NIGHT
[Best played as Axis] By 12 September 1942, the main Japanese
striking force on Guadalcanal, under General Kawaguchi, was in
position to thrust once again at the American marines surrounding
Henderson Field. This time the objective was a group of low hills
south of the airfield that would become known forever as Edson's
or Bloody Ridge! The 1st Marine Division headquarters was well
aware that a new attack was pending and had begun strengthening
the garrison around Lunga Point and the perimeter outposts. Dug-in
along Bloody Ridge were the remnants of the 1st Raider and 1st
Parachute Battalions combined into a composite formation under
Colonel Edson and backed by the 2nd/5 Marines in division reserve
near the airfield. Following probing attacks on the night of
the 12th, General Kawaguchi launched the main assault just after
dark on the 13th with the 1st/124 and 3rd/124 Infantry Battalions
followed by Major Tamura's 2nd/4 Infantry Battalion. Advancing
uphill against heavy concentrations of artillery, rifle and machinegun
fire the Japanese fought their way forward, determined to shatter
the American position before reinforcements could arrive. Note:
Special thanks to Tom Herrschaft for the use of his Guadalcanal
map."
...as described. His OOB and deployment includes the entire Japanese attacking force for the entire battle. I will contrast the scen with RB Frank's "Guadalcanal", I believe to be "The Tome" on that event, crosschecked with the "Official History of the USMC" timelines...[I will note: None of the combatants are in contact at the beginning of the scenario...so I think it safe to conclude it begins with the main Japanese attack, commencing at 2230 hrs. That would make it as short as possible.]
Battle on 13 Sep 42, Japanese maneuvering to position 11-13 Sep 42.
13 Sep 1942:
1630 hrs: Japanese attack US engineers and dislodge (1) co. and continue to maneuver for position. [0 hrs]
2100-2200 hrs: US arty opens, in earnest, against the deploying Japanese. [0-2200 hrs; 6 hours and 30 minutes = 65 turns]
(I will disregard the previous 65 turns, or any fraction of them, and assume that Bevard was not including them.)
so...
2230 hrs: The Japanese open a full scale attack, by all units. [0 hrs]
...there is no landmark for time until 0200 hrs after the US have been driven from their first positions and redeploy on their second line...
0200 hrs: A "massive" Japanese mortar barrage on 1st Parachute and the second line..."drenched the ridge". [0-0200 hrs; 3 hours and 30 minutes = 35 turns]
0300 hrs: US troops fall back again to their third line. [0200-0300 hrs = 10 turns]
0400 hrs: The first US reinforcements arrive on line. [0300-0400 hrs = 10 turns] (here deserves a comment: 55 turns after the Japanese "main attack" [the one described in the scenario] US reinforcements arrive and the Japanese attack begins to stem. Bevard has them arriving on turn 8 = 48 minutes after the onslaught began)
0530 hrs: Small Japanese units arrive at the edge of Henderson Field (which is not included on the map, just barely)...and they were disposed of. [0400-0530 hrs = 15 turns] (how long it took to eliminate them, is unmentioned in time, specifically...however, an interesting note, there are no exit hexes for the Japanese, in this scenario...hmmm)
Lets review: 65 turns can be disposed as deployment, I think most will agree.
55 turns from the beginning of the Japanese attack until the US began receiving reinforcements.
15 turns from US reinforcements until the Japanese reached Henderson Field.
Let us delete the first 65 turns and the last 15 turns...and make a scenario out of it...as is often done by me, at least.
We are left with a 55 turn scenario, and we do know that the US reinforcements arrived on or about turn 55. Obviously the scenario needs to be longer than 55 turns for the US reinforcements to have any effect. Let's say 5 turns, just to keep it short. So 60 turns, calculated.
Our calculation indicates that the US reinforcements arrive, beginning on turn 55, while the designer has them come in on turn 8...roughly a .85 compression of time [in retrospect, possibly an unhistorical attempt to balance the scenario?] . Lets look at our 60 turn total scenario time limit...and consider the designer's turn length of 21 turns. That comes out to a .65 compression of time.
so...from this example I will repeat that the published "time" scale can empirically be demontrated to be subjective.
I like this series because it was the first, I ever found, to put the WF, EF and RS on a common scale (subjectively described, of course). I used to listen to some very smart people tell me that the WF/EF could not be reconciled with RS. I knew that to be balderdash and I recognize it as a strength that CS has done nearly the impossible, by putting the one and together. But to not "recognize gray, but only understand black and white...if by choice is truely ignorant, if by necessity...can only be described as "color blindedness". No insult, at all, is intended, I admire all of us...but to repeat rote dogma is not helpful at all, it only states an oppinion. Like warts, we all have them...but oppinion does not describe a round globe...and used as such is unproductive, in this genre...as it provides only color, not fact...
Maybe this example, which can be replicated over and over and over again...is not new to a "subset" of designers...but was intended by the creators of CS, from the beginning. I'll let the evidence speak for itself.
Cheers to all
Curt
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