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I think wargames should be done with deep thinking and planning.
Especially in SP, it's "a must" for me to conceive the plan carefully.
It often took me very long hours to set-up my battle, force composition, force disposition, general strategy, and common tactics used for a battle.
It'll be more severe when fighting on urban warfare, where there's no clear landmark, reduced visibility, and tightly compressed forces (1 Coy for a single block, say).

I have to decide: whether to use SMG as a main weapon; heavy off-map or heavy on-map arty; mech or stationary arty; 1 Coy of tank or 1 battalion of SS inf; the perfect diverging of support weapons; where the enemy might land his barrage; where the enemy is likely to deploy his forces; when to commit reserves; to exchange quality over quantity; the availability of Geballte Ladung or PzHandmine on a squad; to use Sdkfz 251/1 or Opel for mech coy; to use 1-barreled or 2 barrelled MG; MG34 or MG42; where the forces should join to bolster the attack; where is the perfect place to do overwatch; whether this Coy should be attached with tank or not; whether my tanks should carry Nahverteidigungswaffe; whether my forces should use the road or the forest to advance; to buy a sniper with Fire Control 10 or 20; Kar 98Kurz or StG-44.................................................bla bla bla
AND WHOLE LOTS OF NITTY GRITTY OF WARFARE indescribable...

Somehow I feel really exhausted to think up those things... But I can't avoid that, "IT's A MUST" = As I think, SP ain't an RTS, and being a Turn-based game, it's not fun (and surely disastrous) to just throw away your forces to be slaughtered by your opponent.
It's a GREEAAT relief to see my plan works well. But also it's a good feeling to FINISH that damned-long "Set-up phase". I think it's a NECESSARY EVIL!
It's a real good feeling to finally test the mettle in a " > 0 turn " battle.
But that ingenious plan "OFTEN" worked very contrary to what I want, a waste of brain... "The more you plan, the more likely you'll be slaughtered", one say...

So, what about you guys? Are you tired of staring at those thousands of toys on the purchase screen?

Cheers, Zain Abdillah

Defense needs more planning than advance where you have plenty more flexibility and often also initiative. I usually go with a general plan of action and improvise the rest because of what you said in the end, those long hours of planning often fly out of window after the first contact.

Being flexable is the name of the game I always think.

No plan survives first contact with the enemy

RightDeve Wrote:So, what about you guys? Are you tired of staring at those thousands of toys on the purchase screen?

Cheers, Zain Abdillah

Never get tired of that. I keep finding cool new toys I didn't know before.

On the whole planning thing I completely agree with you. The single most determining factor in the outcome of a game is the time/effort spent in planning.
The phrase that 'no plan survives contact with the enemy' is supposed to be a metaphor telling you to be prepared for surprises and to incorporate flexibility in your plan. But it's gotten to be taken at it's literal meaning, which is silly IMO. Battle plans always assume contact at some point. It's not as if a plan then suddenly becomes useless. On the contrary, I fully believe that he who doesn't plan will lose. Planning for contingency is planning too.

Planning shouldn't be confused by players with scouring the OB's for the best buys in general though, buys should be matched to the overall plan. I'll give a very simple example; most players in most games seem to want as many of their units to be able to take out as many sorts of enemy units as possible. In practice that means they equip all their infantry with the most powerful AT weapon possible, and buy the heaviest AT guns (only) and get the heaviest armor (usually focused on the biggest gun). They also get plenty of AT teams with the heaviest stuff. Which is a complete waste of points and bad planning. You only need so much heavy AT capacity. Beyond that (and you really don't need a whole lot) you're far better of spending the additional points on other stuff.

I do love it when a plan comes together (to loosely quote a great general :whis:).

Narwan

Narwan, that's why I never played a quick jump battles (less than 15 turns); the whole plan I've conceived with pain will be wasted away on a quick mettle test!
I agree with you that forces should be bought depending on the overall plan. I learned that by trial and error; purchase the forces first then go for the plan later, soon I found that my forces isn't sufficient to cover the best plan...

Now, one thing I'm curious about: do you all also need to draw a battlefield plan on a paper (if playing multiple PBeM games, maybe, so that you don't forget the plan you drafted)????

PS: Those SP docs provided by Weasel (esp. the CGSG books) are truly a "helping hand" for me to decide military plans easier!

RightDeve Wrote:I agree with you that forces should be bought depending on the overall plan. I learned that by trial and error; purchase the forces first then go for the plan later, soon I found that my forces isn't sufficient to cover the best plan...

Now, one thing I'm curious about: do you all also need to draw a battlefield plan on a paper (if playing multiple PBeM games, maybe, so that you don't forget the plan you drafted)????

One way to go is to make a plan and buy forces accordingly but the other way around is just as valid; buy forces and make a plan that makes optimal use of the forces you do have. As I sometimes buy actual historical forces or according to historical TO&E's (usually not the same thing!) with little room to tweak I have to go the second route for those games. That probably gives even more satisfaction when it works.

I used to make very crude paper sketches of my battleplan when I started playing the game. It helped speed up the learning curve of the game itself and to get a better feel for force dispositions and possible contingencies. Now I only do so rarely, maybe if faced with a serious challenge or in very large games on a big map (I used to play max size games for a while with one opponent, with up to 500 units a sketch on paper can be very useful).

Narwan

Narwan Wrote:I do love it when a plan comes together (to loosely quote a great general :whis:).

John "Hannibal" Smith never made it past colonel before his dishonorable discharge. I pity the fool who can't recollect his rank properly. ;)

Narwan Wrote:(I used to play max size games for a while with one opponent, with up to 500 units a sketch on paper can be very useful).

Narwan

Now, that's amazing! 500 units on the map, did you draw each of those 500 units on the paper (including it's disposition, mission, etc)? I wonder how large the paper is...

Never done such big thing, I only draw some crude plans with general tactics and strategy but enough to cover each platoon's mission.

RightDeve Wrote:[Now, that's amazing! 500 units on the map, did you draw each of those 500 units on the paper (including it's disposition, mission, etc)? I wonder how large the paper is...

Oh no, I don't get more detailed than about company level. I'd make a drawing putting each of those in their sector of deployment (usually just north, center and south) and their rough direction of advance. That way when a new turn came I could use it to quickly see which formation is to veer off north and which south etc. Helped avoid traffic jams.

Those big games were MBT games btw. I once bought an entire '85 dutch mech brigade with higher echelon attachments to fight a reinforced polish regiment. That's the kind of set-up I really like! :smoke:

@Seabolt:
Wasn't Hannibal the colonel just quoting Hannibal the general?


Narwan

Narwan Wrote:Those big games were MBT games btw. I once bought an entire '85 dutch mech brigade with higher echelon attachments to fight a reinforced polish regiment. That's the kind of set-up I really like! :smoke:

A Brigade???
Never wonder of such big formation being played on SP...
How many regiments it covered?
If it was me who played the game, I would spend the whole week just for one turn.
Anybody ever played a single division????