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I have to say that I find it out of order that the thread ch-ch-changes was closed as it was.
I made a post in the earlier thread about how it was getting out of hand and detrimental to the club.
I have to say in all fairness, Ed's initial post was constructive and well put, with no controversy. Others discussed it then, all of a sudden Ed gets attacked for his airing his views.
I fully support you in this one Ed, you were not out of order and it was a valid discussion.
This is a new, major change to the game, some like it, some don't and I think it is fair to have a constructive discussion on it, surely that's what the community is about? The personal attacks have no place in it, constructive discussion, personal views do!

[/i][/b]Peter

glint Wrote:I have to say that I find it out of order that the thread ch-ch-changes was closed as it was.
I made a post in the earlier thread about how it was getting out of hand and detrimental to the club.
I have to say in all fairness, Ed's initial post was constructive and well put, with no controversy. Others discussed it then, all of a sudden Ed gets attacked for his airing his views.
I fully support you in this one Ed, you were not out of order and it was a valid discussion.
This is a new, major change to the game, some like it, some don't and I think it is fair to have a constructive discussion on it, surely that's what the community is about? The personal attacks have no place in it, constructive discussion, personal views do!

[/i][/b]Peter

Hey Pete,
Good job,just because somepeople don't want to hear it, don't pull up the thread .Its that simple. The people who disagree with the 1.04 should be able to have their place to talk about what they find wrong with that version. People who come in and attack those who disagree with 1.04 are the ones who disrupt the thread.
Ed, shouold be able to rant and rave all he wants about how in his opinion the new add-on sucks. He never personally attacked anybody.He spent his time defending his stance on the game.
Jason, as far as sending you files too see what the problems are, people don't have the time to do that. I personally don't know how to do it. In addition to that it takes a couple of turns before you realize that a single unit has brought your whole offensive to a halt. In this version a single unit that can call arty down could have serous results on you.


Chuck

Chuck10mtn Wrote:Jason, as far as sending you files too see what the problems are, people don't have the time to do that. I personally don't know how to do it. In addition to that it takes a couple of turns before you realize that a single unit has brought your whole offensive to a halt. In this version a single unit that can call arty down could have serous results on you.

Chuck,

It isn't too difficult and takes hardly any time at all.

Assuming you are playing by email.

Do not delete your turn emails as they come in.

If you notice something that you find odd, you can forward those offending turn emails to me at jasonpetho(at)hotmail(dot)com with your password.

If you are playing a non-stock game, I will also need the scenarios files (scenario.map, scenario.org, scenario.scn)

Once you're done the game, delete the relevant turn emails.

The process should take a couple minutes.

Jason Petho

Peter your objection is noted and respected. The thread was interesting in the begining and then degenerated. People who where interested and wanted to read and maybe join in where complaining about the direction it had gone. Anyone can restart the discussion as long as it stays civil.

Tide1

Thank you matey,
I agree wholeheartedly that it degenerated after valid discussion had taken place and understand your reason for closing the thread, in those circumstances.
Perhaps in hindsight, it may have been prudent to 'block' the detrimental posts made against Ed's views, then the discussion could have been continued?
I like to be fair, in the past I made a comment about the repetition of moans about the upgrade, this time I felt the need to support Ed and his comments, he merely started a new thread with no contentious issues at all, only to get slammed by a couple of people?
(Sorry Ed to include you in this discussion, but I'm sure you know I'm annoyed at the way a discussion can be slapped down? - The intention of this post was to highlight a specific case).
Tide, I appreciate your reply and fully endorse your comments about keeping things civil. Maybe others can bear that in mind before posting their' message, - take a read of it first before clicking the post button!
regards
Peter

Guys thanks.
Peter, I know we do not agree on everything. I do appreciate your sticking up for freedom of speech and the right to express thoughts.
Chuck, thanks too. I feel like you do. We have had our game changed. It was "tested" and "game played" by those who work for Matrix or are part of their volunteer "team". I have no interest in sending in files that I think show what is wrong with the game. Most, if not all, should have been found during testing? What will anyone see who thinks that there is nothing wrong to begin with?

I hesitate to discuss anything here in depth. My reasoning can go unstated as it was highlighted by the closed thread and those who chose to jolly stomp on me, personally, when they did not understand the issues and/or could discuss them reasonably.

Gary, I appreciate your allowing further discussion. I may want to chime in now and then, but, I will not take the lead and run the risk of being "slammed", with little to no recourse as a member of this club, against those in power who also have a vested interest.

I don't understand how you can post it's out of hand & detrimental to the club, then complain that it's shut down.

Ed was never attacked in any manner, shape, or form, otherwise the MOD would have stepped in and threw a flag. Ed did however attack me, but that's ok I suppose.
I don't need anyone to back me up tho, I wield a big hammer remember :)

If he has the right to rant and rave then he needs to be receptive to similar responses, without running to a MOD asking for help because his skin is not so thick.
How can one person be allowed to indulge in the smack talk yet cannot bear to be replied to in a like manner?

How can a discussion be held if the topic veers off base simply because someone mentions that the method of approach is lacking substance and poorly disguised as a discussion, when its really another tirade that's been repeated several times.

several posters, including myself offered good reasons for the results of 1.04 assaults, but they were ignored in the flurry of imaginary accusations and name callings that spewed forth which led to the thread shut down.
Hard to imagine that any other similar thread is going to be productive if the attitudes don't change gears.
Folks need to Quit calling people's work trash, garbage, infestations, etc.. and perhaps we'll see a better response.

Closeing a thread is one thing I now see it has been removed from the message board, so all of the vaild discussion that was in it has now been deleted.:chin:
very poor.

Otto von Blotto Wrote:Closeing a thread is one thing I now see it has been removed from the message board, so all of the vaild discussion that was in it has now been deleted.:chin:
very poor.

It may have been "hidden" by the moderator. If deleted that would truly be a shame?
Maybe in the future the mod could delete specific "nasty attack" posts within the threads and keep the thread alive? "Cut out the cancer", so to speak, so that the body can live?

Taking the time to repeat things will only draw out frustration in the poster, the readers, and the moderator? ;)
Plus, it could be seen as spamming the forum, even though it is done to bring back an allowable discussion topic? :(



Ed

RedDevil Wrote:I don't understand how you can post it's out of hand & detrimental to the club, then complain that it's shut down.

Maybe he was saying your "sarcasm" is seen as attacks and your posts are what's out of hand?

RedDevil Wrote:Ed was never attacked in any manner, shape, or form, otherwise the MOD would have stepped in and threw a flag. Ed did however attack me, but that's ok I suppose.
I don't need anyone to back me up tho, I wield a big hammer remember :)

Oh, yes I was attacked by you and others with the "vested interest". I thought the mod did step in and you admitted that a post of yours, in another thread, was removed because it was "too sarcastic"?
Attack you? LOL! I pointed out that you were off topic and made personal attacks against me. You are just holding true to form and blaming others for your shortcomings.
As far as the hammer. Yes, we all have seen how you can assert your power when you lose your objectiveness and emotionally insert yourself into arguments that bait others?

RedDevil Wrote:If he has the right to rant and rave then he needs to be receptive to similar responses, without running to a MOD asking for help because his skin is not so thick.
How can one person be allowed to indulge in the smack talk yet cannot bear to be replied to in a like manner?

This is a canard. You erect a strawman and attack the strawman. I neither rant or rave and I have not responded to "every" comment made.

RedDevil Wrote:How can a discussion be held if the topic veers off base simply because someone mentions that the method of approach is lacking substance and poorly disguised as a discussion, when its really another tirade that's been repeated several times.

Here is where you let your emotion run your reason. No where in any of the discussion is a (justified) rant like the one concerning the version 1.03 debacle. Even the "crew" admitted that they punted the ball on that one and is the reason for the version 1.04 upgrade?
I'm not ranting now. I was trying to get up a discussion of the changes because all my opponents have been complaining about the 1.04 upgrade. Gary allowed a new "start" and here you go again?

Others participated in the discussion. Some of the debates got "heated", but you swooped in and then went on one of your "rants". Your rant provided a misdirection and led to a nice discussion devolving into a "Randy monlogue", which defended every thing that was done to the game and those who made the changes.
When you do it from a position of power that is called harrassment?
I'd just ask the forum moderator to ensure that the members of this ladder are not harrassed. It can be done if the posting rules applied equally to you as it does to the rest of the members?

RedDevil Wrote:several posters, including myself offered good reasons for the results of 1.04 assaults, but they were ignored in the flurry of imaginary accusations and name callings that spewed forth which led to the thread shut down.
Hard to imagine that any other similar thread is going to be productive if the attitudes don't change gears.
Folks need to Quit calling people's work trash, garbage, infestations, etc.. and perhaps we'll see a better response.

You have a myopic view of what was stated. You, and Huib, harbor ill will because of your emotional attachment to the topic and for some reason "myself". You have not offerred any "good" reasons for the new version assault model that would have changed the position of this poster. If there was one I must have missed it in the "Randy rant" and Huib personal comment? And, with the entire thread removed it makes it hard to go back and see what you think may have been a good reason for anything?
As far as you seeing if similar threads are going to be productive, is that a veiled threat that any future discussion of version 1.04 assault, artillery fire effects, faulty scenarios, et al. are going to be regarded as reason for you to step in and rant, highjack the thread, and then get them removed?
Whatever happened to discussion? You know, that little thing that is supposed to promote the sharing of ideas so that the subject could grow? Your running in like a rabid Pitbull does not help to further any discussion. It only stifles it?

If you have evidence that I personally attacked you, present it.
If not, then stop erecting that strawman. We've seen it before and I will not allow you to use it as an excuse to remove me from the club or my posts from the forum.

And, I'd like to just ask that you stop highjacking threads.

RR