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Just wanted to see if anyone could sway me for or against:bow:

PK Powers Wrote:Just wanted to see if anyone could sway me for or against:bow:

Short answer ----------> Yes

The John Tiller's Campaign Series takes the old Talonsoft efforts and adds new scenarios, nationalities, units and rules. The latest game patch (ver 1.04) corrects the known bugs and gives players additional options on use of two different assault rules and variable visibility ones.

I downloaded and installed ver 1.04 on the day it was available. Have not looked back since... and am enjoying my ver. 1.04 games very much!

Highly recommended! :cool:

Most people will upgrade to the latest version and soon it will be very difficult to find opponents unless one has the latest and greatest.

Plus, it is the only version that will run on Vista and likely whatever replaces Vista. While I wouldn't wish Vista on my worst enemy. At some point WinXP will not become a viable option, at least not without dual-booting with the latest Windows product.

Plus, John Tiller's Campaign Series and the latest game patch (currently ver. 1.04) are the only software titles and updates that Matrix Games will support and make available via their Web site.

As Montana stated in an earlier post, majority of CS players will standardize on the above... and games played under ver. 1.03 and earlier patches will become things of the past.

thanks for all the input ; I just made the purchase and now installing patch

Judging from your avatar you will like the PB/PL mods included in the User Mods folder in your game install folder.

Any questions just ask.

thanks for the help ; I will surely look at the PB/PL mods;
I looked up the options help but didn't see what extreme assault means?

That is explained in the readme that you should have clicked in the finished screen of the update but anyway it says

V1.03 - July 9, 2008

New Features/Enhancements

IMPORTANT!!! -Assault Rule Change
The new assault routine runs through the casualty processing, then does an odds ratio melee resolution, then does a combined morale test of the defending stack. If the attacker has at least one non-disrupted unit, wins the melee resolution, and the defender fails his morale check, then the attackers win. For assault purpose only, disrupted units have their morale halved.
Basically, anything the defender can do to increase his morale makes it harder for him to fail the morale test and thus successfully repel the attack The best thing to do when assaulting is ensure you're assaulting with overwhelming force to provide the victory you seek

PK Powers Wrote:thanks for the help ; I will surely look at the PB/PL mods;
I looked up the options help but didn't see what extreme assault means?

PK:

Here is the ver. 1.04 assault rules explanation from Jason. You can find this information and other helpful game aids in your Matrix Games Manuals folder.

Assaulting with the 1.04 UPDATE
August 18, 2008 by Jason Petho

With the 1.04 UPDATE you will find that the new Assaulting Rules have been optional. You may find them within the Optional Rules dialogue when starting a new scenario, whether that is for PBEM or standalone against the computer.
If you do not choose the Extreme Assault option, you will play under the pre-1.03 UPDATE rules where disrupting the units in a hex is all that is required to successfully assault a hex. The Talonsoft method. On the other hand, if you do choose the Extreme Assault option, you will play under the 1.04 UPDATE rules where a guaranteed assault is no longer the “norm”.
So, how does it work?
In the wise words of our brilliant programmer, Wyatt:

Essentially, when a hex full of units is attacked by an assaulting force, the game takes count of all the factors of the attacker vs all the factors in the defending stack. It also takes count of the number of counters (units) in the defending hex and evaluates them for various conditions like armor assaulting into an urban or open hex, fortifications, modifying terrain, etc. For our new processing I also had the software sum up the different morale values of the different units and derive an average based on the number of units in the defending stack. If any units in the stack are disrupted, their morale level is counted at a -3 of what is shown in the unit information box. This has the adverse effect of lowering the average morale of the stack and presents a realistic problem for the defender.

When the assault is executed, the software goes to the combat routines and conducts casualty assessment based largely on the same principles that govern shooting combat. Except in this case its defense and offense values are independent of armor facing.

When the casualty assessment is finished, the software conducts a die roll and compares it to an odds based combat results table that I developed. If the attacker wins the die roll an automatic -5 is applied to the defender's morale, simulating the fact that the attacker won and its effect on the defending unit’s morale. If the defender wins, his morale is increased by 3, again simulating an increase due to victory over the attacker. The game then does a morale check based on the defender's modified average morale. If the defender fails his morale check and there are undisrupted units in the attacking force, then the assault is successful and the defender is subject to the software's retreat processing. Otherwise, the defender wins and remains in his hex.

It should be noted at this point that I did not modify the retreat processing at all and that it is now and always has been identical to what the original designers put into the game. That being the case, it is still possible to surround and destroy units. As I said before, it has always been possible to do so, even in 1.03. Except now it is harder to do. The previous system had relied heavily on there being a 99% chance of defeating disrupted units. That is no longer the case. Disrupted units now have a fair chance of defending themselves and although it is still relatively easy to defeat them, the chance of doing so has slipped to between 60% and 70% of the time.

The odds based combat results table is the real gem in all of this for while it still makes it harder for assaults conducted at below 1:1 to succeed, it also allows the worst case attack a 15 percent chance of victory over the defender. This is also reflected at the top of the scale where the defender still has at least a 10% chance of defeating the attacker. And then no matter what happens, it is always possible that the defender might either fail or pass his morale check and completely negate the odds based die roll.

So what does this all mean to the guy playing the game? Simply this, nothing is as predictable as it was before. A player can plan his odds of success, and yet, no matter how well he plans, he may still lose. Or else he can try an enormous gamble that might otherwise be doomed to failure, and see it succeed.

Basically, an attacker has his best chances of success if he can find ways to reduce the defender's morale. This can be done either by firing at them and reducing their strength (often accompanied by a morale loss), disrupting them, or both. So just as in real life, it is always wise to soften up a target before you hit it.

Assaults can result in high casualties for either side. A number of successful tank attacks ultimately bogged down and halted during the secondary assaults after the attacking units were disrupted or damaged during the initial assaults. On the other hand, an attack can defeat a stack of units causing them casualties and reducing their morale. Further attacks can continue the attrition process and the defending stack can find itself sent back multiple times in a cascading series of defeats that continually erodes its strength and morale. Or they can beat the crap out of the attacker in the secondary assault and stop him dead.

Armor alone inside cities versus infantry is at a severe disadvantage. But if they are heavier units like Panthers, Tigers, and Bears, they may at least survive any onslaughts from attacking infantry. However, infantry can now defeat armor inside urban hexes, even in the attack.


I really couldn’t explain it better myself. Principally, the assault_basics_v1_20080115.pdf is still relatively accurate and you may wish to use it as a guideline when deciding on when and where to assault.
Any questions? Feel free to post on the Matrix Games Message Board in the Campaign Series Forum and the questions will be answered accordingly.
Hope you enjoy the new system!
Take care and good luck
Jason Petho