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I've recently fallen victim to assumption. :bang:

I assumed that vehicles, without specialty equipment, could not cross streams -2 or deeper. I knew that streams often had fording spots at -1, that while allowing vehicles to cross often resulted in a stuck AFV. The manual doesn't make it very clear, but it seems to suggest that only infantry can wade/swim at depths deeper than -1, again unless the vehicle is specially equipped (DD Tank for example).

So, how deep of a stream can a vehicle cross without going under?

Also (and not to rehash the z-fire issue), is accuracy, direct fire or z-fire, affected by terrain? For example, I had a Sherman move 100 meters on paved road and then z-fired into a hex out of LOS 100 meters away. It scored a direct hit 3 times with main gun (100%) and every time with MGs, resulting in several casualties on an unseen unit. In the same game, I moved a light tank 50 meters over open terrain (grass) and z-fired through smoke 100 meters. Not a single round landed in the target hex.

I also know from personal experience, running flat 50 yards up hill vs. 50 yards on flat pavement greatly effects marksmanship. I can imagine a Sherman bouncing up and down through a field would be much less accurate than if it had driven the same distance down smooth pavement.

So, does terrain as well as movement itself affect accuracy on target?

And yes, I know what the say about ass u me.

GUNSLNGR Wrote:So, how deep of a stream can a vehicle cross without going under?

It's a matter of movement cost and chance of immobilization.
–1 ford; lower move cost/ immobilization chance,
-2 stream; higher move cost/ immobilization chance..

GUNSLNGR Wrote:So, does terrain as well as movement itself affect accuracy on target?

No. Accuracy depends on how many movement points the unit spent prior to firing. The fewer the better.. difficult terrain drains more points of course..

Thank you, Sir. That answers my questions...I don't like it - but it answers my questions.

BTW, do I owe you a turn? My sent box was deleted and I can't tell if I sent you my last or not.

IIRC speed effects crossing water and immobilisation. I always stop a hex short of the water and move one hex the next turn etc.

Stinks when the hidden unit fires on you in the water though...

I guess, then, there is no such thing as an "impassable" stream. I probably, not knowing, should have sent a vehicle to the stream and having seen it had movement points over - realized it was not the sure-fire roadblock I thought it was.

It really is disappointing to anchor your flank along a stream, after bombing out the only bridge over it, only to see half a dozen Panzers on the other side cruising along like Sunday afternoon. Time to come up with a new plan...

GUNSLNGR Wrote:BTW, do I owe you a turn? My sent box was deleted and I can't tell if I sent you my last or not.

Yes, I believe it's your turn..

Hello GunSlinger,

Crossing a stream takes patience and the ability to accept stuck equipment..

IIRC the game engine looks at several factors..

1) The Terrain on either side of the crossing point
2) The weight of the vehicle
3) Is the vehicle tracked?
4) speed of vehicle
5) crew expereince
6) depth of crossing point

Effects of above:

1) worst place to cross is mud/swamp on any side of stream. best is clear terrain
2) Tanks are far more likely to get stuck than HT's so don't assume that because a HT makes it, that a Heavy tank will.. A tank with a movment showing something like 13/2 (the /2 is the key) indicates that the vehicle is equipped with fording gear.. which lessens the chance it will get stuck..
3) tracks allow better footing, so are less likely to stick than wheeled vehicles.. trucks of all types are especially prone to getting stuck in a stream
4) You want to pull up next to a stream and stop, next turn, move into the stream, following turn you move out of the stream.. trying to blast across in a burst of speed is a big -no-no
5) Expereinced crew seems to help (70+ expereince). They seem to be able to better fiind the best crossing point (remember the hex is 150 feet across)
6) Deep water (-3) is always to be avoided except by amphibs. -2 can be crossed at about the same risk as crossing mud - if you follow #4.
-1 is a ford which is a shallow area with a fairly stable bottom.. but still best to cross per #4 above as you can do so safely about 90% of the time no matter how large a vehicle.. 'ford' hexes are also coded to be less likely to cause a vehicle to bog down..

Using a stream as a flank defense is OK - but you need AT guns and MG's to cover possible crossing points (see #1).. and a few troops to back up the guns.. have some transports available incase the opposition doesn't show up, then you can move the troops elsewhere.

Greybeard