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Ed,

I cannot but more, indeed, appreciate your passion. But let me be frank.

You have proclaimed that "I have personally never played any of your (Guberman's) scenarios" (when actually you have played one...a long time ago, and it seems...enjoyed it), so would not comment on this or that during forum discussion. Well stated, and well respected.

Let me be very clear. My scenarios are as historically accurate as I can see to make them. My OOB's are microscopic. My victory conditions are dyslexic (and they bleed), as they have to be "translated into the game format" (ask Huib, he has been more help than an animal deserves), but the maps, et al are everything that they should be. The idea of "translating them to game format" is anathema to me.
Game format?...Hogwash...

I think, all that the "redesign" (to 1.03), as you have referred to it, is doing is to try and make it less of a game...and more of a simulation. If Squad Leader was an arcade game...and Advanced SL was a simulation...(and truely I don't know the difference at all [as I was plaing SPI and you AH dorks were not], but just as an example)...then I would find myself succoring to the simulation, even if it was more laborious. My group of friends started playing Panzer Blitz. Soon there were the "winners", who quickly left us to go on to other things and then call us dorks; then there were those freaks who labored over charts and calculations (I found myself in that crowd...let us not get into the many layers of freakdom)...the only players still left, after all of these years are some of the freaks...none of the heroes who split remain...hopefully they are rich movers and shakers...

I cannot express it enough...the guys who stay around here are not the Friday night drag racers...the keepers are guys like von Earlmann, Jason, Majog, Osiris, the Czech guy (who I can't remember know, sorry), Huib, YOU (I suppose, though you so much sound like an arcader right now), Hawk (who will playtest a battle between our mothers in law if need be [thanx Hawk...and I expect some feedback soon, since you had the old copies of the Java scens])...and so many unamed heroes and on and on and on. Please, Ed...don't lose it only because you may lose a single battle (no freaks allowed). Harsh I know....but sheesh you see what I've lost in the last year...Makes you a better (bitter?) person.

Cheers and peace, for real
Curt

Curt,

Good, bad or indifferent, I will always play your scenarios and give you feedback!! Look at my sceanrios played record anytime and ask me about any of your scenarios I have played!

Keep them comming!!



Thanx!

Attention - Alert Alert Alert

For anyone who is tired of me trying to answer comments and then repeating myself, which I cannot help, please do not read below this line.
If you do please do not complain about it afterword?
________________________________________

Mr. Guberman Wrote:Ed,

I cannot but more, indeed, appreciate your passion. But let me be frank.
You have proclaimed that "I have personally never played any of your (Guberman's) scenarios" (when actually you have played one...a long time ago, and it seems...enjoyed it), so would not comment on this or that during forum discussion. Well stated, and well respected.

Well, well, well. Indeed if you said I played one then you are correct. If I stated on the forums that I have never played one of yours I am incorrect. Good for you.
I am also glad I enjoyed the experience, playing under the old assault rules.
And, I think my most recent comments that may have ruffled your feathers was something to the effect of, "the new close assault rules will make any scenario where bunkers and pillboxes are available to the enemy, unplayable."
I got to admit you tried hard to paint a picture of me that was not there?

Mr. Guberman Wrote:Let me be very clear. My scenarios are as historically accurate as I can see to make them. My OOB's are microscopic. My victory conditions are dyslexic (and they bleed), as they have to be "translated into the game format" (ask Huib, he has been more help than an animal deserves), but the maps, et al are everything that they should be. The idea of "translating them to game format" is anathema to me.
Game format?...Hogwash...

You are clear, and I agree with the first part of your paragraph, that your games are historically accurate. I can see that just by looking at them.
The other part is not so clear, but I think you are saying that you do not want the game to play "balanced" as long as historical accuracy is maintained?
On that we disagree. It is both an historical simulation and a game. If I want pure history I will read an historical book on the subject. At the moment our Ladders for reporting games are "gaming" ladders.
Balancing a game is a factor of more than history without losing the flavor of the history itself?

Mr. Guberman Wrote:I think, all that the "redesign" (to 1.03), as you have referred to it, is doing is to try and make it less of a game...and more of a simulation. If Squad Leader was an arcade game...and Advanced SL was a simulation...(and truely I don't know the difference at all [as I was plaing SPI and you AH dorks were not], but just as an example)...then I would find myself succoring to the simulation, even if it was more laborious.

Ah, nice choice. Yes, Squad Leader and Advanced Squad leader were both simulations. The former favored ease of play and latter one favored those who like to stick their noses into rule books each time they moved or fired. Just what a great board game needed. I wonder how Avalon Hill is doing with Advanced Squad Leader today?
For the record I played many games from SPI and many other game companies. Do not try and use my one example as an illustration of the whole picture. It is part of your strawman, not reality.

And, as a point of clarification. I did not say the variable visibility and close assault rules were a redesign. I said they fundamentally changed the game. Yes, the very way the game can be played has changed. If you find untruth in that statement then sobeit?
If you are going to say it is the same game, you can be proven wrong. And, it will not be me that have to tell you so.
It does not take a rocket scientist to play some of the old scenarios and see that they are completely changed.

Mr. Guberman Wrote:My group of friends started playing Panzer Blitz. Soon there were the "winners", who quickly left us to go on to other things and then call us dorks; then there were those freaks who labored over charts and calculations (I found myself in that crowd...let us not get into the many layers of freakdom)...the only players still left, after all of these years are some of the freaks...none of the heroes who split remain...hopefully they are rich movers and shakers...

This is a terrible strawman and I'm rather insulted that your choice of words was so droll.

Mr. Guberman Wrote:I cannot express it enough...the guys who stay around here are not the Friday night drag racers...the keepers are guys like von Earlmann, Jason, Majog, Osiris, the Czech guy (who I can't remember know, sorry), Huib, YOU (I suppose, though you so much sound like an arcader right now), Hawk (who will playtest a battle between our mothers in law if need be [thanx Hawk...and I expect some feedback soon, since you had the old copies of the Java scens])...and so many unamed heroes and on and on and on.

Here again, you simply take a shot at me. I think that Hawk left this in and I can now make comment upon it.
You want frank talk? You want to take shots at me? LOL!
No, I do not count myself in with those you name. They are obviously more talented and intellegent than this "little general".
Every single person you mentioned, has contributed greatly to the game and the club. I may not fully agree with one of the people named but, I am sure he had good intentions and has time to fix what what done to the game.

Mr. Guberman Wrote:Please, Ed...don't lose it only because you may lose a single battle (no freaks allowed).

Now Curt, your strawmen in previous comments have stretched it to the limit. This one above is really lousy.

Remember now, I think this is just an arcade game? I guess I do not have enough IQ to play a real simulation, right? **dripping sarcasm**
I've seen more gamey-ness in play since the upgrade to version 1.03. I can tell you ways to use the new rules to really make the "simulation" really gamey and add that "dose of realism" that everyone was going for.
Some say that they find the old assault rules unrealistic and many cry that they fall victim to them. LOL! They haven't seen anything yet, in the way of gamey-ness.

Remember I am only a person who is fixated on winning?
I do not care for the club or the game, if one of your strawmen is correct?

You must not have looked at my .507 win/loss record lately? I think I have lost more games than most members will play in their span of time here.
And, if you look at my draws you can probably get any number of players who could step forward and say "hey, I remember when Ed was showing me how to play the game, when he only took draws until I beat him."
You have a real loser of an argument there, my friend.

If I win I want to win fairly and if I lose I also like to lose fairly. How long will it be before a patch is released that fixes the glitches that make for even more gamey play?
The shame here is that you see it that way.

Matrix and the crew could have easily put the variable visibility rules in as an option. When they put them in and got the reaction they did they changed them to tone them down. But, there was not enough time to make them optional?
Even still they came out with the new close assault rules. If they were in love with them so much but knew that others would not like them why did they not make the old assault rules optional?

This way those who like the game as is could have chosen to opt out of VV and CA changes?
Instead we had this shoved down our throats so that the "little arcade players" would be given no choice but to walk and leave the "big bad simulation dudes" to have their fun?

The seven "P's" of success really were ignored. That is the whole shame of it. The Matrix reaction to the players reactions kinda tells the real story?

Mr. Guberman Wrote:Harsh I know....but sheesh you see what I've lost in the last year...Makes you a better (bitter?) person.

Harsh? Only in the fact that you attacked the strawman and attempted to insult me in the process. Then you fall back on what personal things you have gone through?
Sheesh! Keep your personal stuff personal. I do and I have. Otherwise you may have been able to share in a bit of the misery of others instead of using your's as a shield.
Some of my bad days are in the past, while others are just before me.
We all go through stuff in our lives. I'm not going to wear mine out on the forums.

And lastly, since you could not figure out the meaning of my name changes, I'll shed a little light for you.
When I joined the club I did so under my current name, Silkster53. I changed it to Herr Straus Lauefer when the club site actually support German letters and the game was a lot more fun. I then changed it to Mr. RoadRunner because the German letters showed up as boxes in the name, and the game was still fun. I reverted back to Silkster53 because it is not fun anymore and I wanted to go back to my original registered name.

You can take it from here but, this is my final say on the subject.

Ed,

Well stated and well respected.

What I was trying to say is, here, we are all in the same boat, together.

I'd like to approach things that way...rather than be devisive. If I have been devisive or insulting, it was unintended and I do apologize. However, it takes two to tango.

With much respect to a veteran gamer,

Cheers
Curt

Hi Ed,
Thanks for all that you have done for me on the site. All of the help you have given me. All of the DRAWS that I've gotten over the time of our matches.
Its hard for me to believe that Ed is the only guy who dislikes the new Assult rules the way that they are. I know that he's been out-spoken about it . Why does anybody want or would give him any crap over his PERSONAL opinion. I believe its his and he's entitled to it. He hasn't ever said anything that would make a person think that he's better than them. For people to want to personally attack him after all the time and effort he has put in for the club because of his personal opinion is crazy. I think the club,and anybody who has played him are better today because of his partisapation and hard work. I haven't seen anything about a ladder custodian not being allowed to voice their opinion about any topic,weather they agree or disagree with it. In my humble opinion this is no-place for personal attackes on people, or there beliefs. The next thing I'm going to see is liar, liar pants on fire. Lets try this and we'll all be happy again.

Chuck

Mr. Guberman Wrote:What I was trying to say is, here, we are all in the same boat, together.

Actually I think Matrix shot a torpedo into the boat and the capsized boat has half the players dry and screaming while the other half are wet and drowning.
Regardless the boat "ain't floatin' so good, eh?"

Mr. Guberman Wrote:I'd like to approach things that way...rather than be devisive. If I have been devisive or insulting, it was unintended and I do apologize. However, it takes two to tango.

To clear the air, I did not start off at 900 mph. I was sent there after I played a few turns and read exactly what the rules meant to the game. When I protested I essentially was informed that my opinion did not matter and that the game would not be reverted back or the old rules made an option.
I was told this in the name of "realism" being added for the game and it was "tough sh*t" if I did not like it. I would just have to learn how to play the game over again.
Then I started finding glitches, bugs, and hang-ups with the assault rules. Matrix then wanted me to jump through hoops to send them files and let them see what was wrong. Sorry, that was what the Beta Team and the testers were supposed to do beforehand?

Now it looks like we will get a year long debate and half my regular opponents will be leaving the game. I cannot say nice going Matrix for what they did to the game, without a snarl coming to my face.
I will not come here and make "nice nice" because 'others' think I should.
I know that I should be more reserved. But, I am sincerely angry for what they did and what it can do to the game and our gaming ladder. If I do not stand up for what I believe in, I will fall for whatever crap they try to throw at me.
It's all I have left?

Mr. Guberman Wrote:With much respect to a veteran gamer,

Of course! I do not think that I have treated you with anything but respect. Always.

And, I don't Tango unless there is a little salsa to go along with it. ;)

Chuck10mtn Wrote:The next thing I'm going to see is liar, liar pants on fire. Lets try this and we'll all be happy again.

Chuck

LOL! Thanks Chuck! But, you stole my next line of argument! :)

Seriously, it is cool. Curt and I are "old school" and know how to work things out.

I appreciate the sentiment. All do have a right to express their opinion.

Ed,

Cheers, and great Kudos to you...indeed I am the "Town Drunk".

...Litstening to Zappa now...and it forces me to think...

1. None of my RS scenarios (if you, randomely, picked 10 of them,...would not show you a bunker or a pillpox)...so that straw man staggers into the ditch.

2. Play me...grab a Dutch uniform..and not be encumbered by game inabilities...but try and keep the Japananese from overrunning you.

3. Since we are old mates, Ed... I will always offer my hand to you as a comrade.

Cheers,
Curt

Silkster53 Wrote:

Mr. Guberman Wrote:What I was trying to say is, here, we are all in the same boat, together.

Actually I think Matrix shot a torpedo into the boat and the capsized boat has half the players dry and screaming while the other half are wet and drowning.
Regardless the boat "ain't floatin' so good, eh?"

Ed...that torpedo shot should be pretty bloody easy, because the V1.03 Amazing Bathtub Navy Non-submersible submarine fires a really neat non-medium-constrained torpedo..... it is free to operate in any medium, at any target.... air sea, land and for all I know the vacuum of outer space. Watch out, Hubble telescope!!! Duck, astronauts!!!

Mr. Guberman Wrote:Ed,

Cheers, and great Kudos to you...indeed I am the "Town Drunk".

...Litstening to Zappa now...and it forces me to think...

I think I can give you a run for you money in the alcohol department. Zappa ... ah the Bach of Rock. I love Zappa. Much vinyl in my collection, along with u-tube, and cassettes. Probably the best musical genius of our time. His view of music and sound was extraordinary and the man could cut up a guitar, for sure.

Mr. Guberman Wrote:1. None of my RS scenarios (if you, randomely, picked 10 of them,...would not show you a bunker or a pillpox)...so that straw man staggers into the ditch.

What strawman? What ditch?
You seem to think that I refer to your scenarios when I reference scenarios in RS. There are many stock scenarios, and for that matter the new one that Rod is working on, that are Island attacks that have tons of Pillboxes, bunkers, and caves.
I've only played one of yours, as previously mentioned, and it was so long ago I cannot remember the experience.
That said. I have not commented on your scenarios as the RS archetype that I believe are forever changed by the new rules.
Therefore, no strawman? And, quite frankly, I do not understand why you keep coming back to it.
My "beef" is what Matrix did that changes the way all games are played and the outcome of previously balanced scenarios has also been changed. That is a factor when a player looks at the scenario data base to see what games they might want to play? Former scenarios reported as balanced can no longer be viewed as balanced. That's years of data changed in an instant?
As an example, try West front's Hell in Parroy. IMO, one of the most difficult game for the Allies to win is now almost impossible. Though I don't think it was meant to be that much balanced against a human opponent, it is also now most likely unwinnable against the AI as Germans.

Mr. Guberman Wrote:2. Play me...grab a Dutch uniform..and not be encumbered by game inabilities...but try and keep the Japananese from overrunning you.

I've taken on a few new players since the rules changes. I do not have a slot open and will be sporadic with my regular games in the next few weeks. (Some of my opponents know why, but, I am not revealing that here.)
And, on a game note, I think the Japanese will be made that much more powerful by the combination of Banzi charges and the new assault rules that, in my opinion, will hamper the Allies.

Mr. Guberman Wrote:3. Since we are old mates, Ed... I will always offer my hand to you as a comrade.

Emphasis on "old"? LOL!
As I stated previously, I've never had anything but the utmost respect for you and I've tried to carry that along in these posts. I'd like you to get a better grasp on the concepts of what I am trying to say when I reference RS and the effects of the rules changes, but, I can continue to correct the record as we go.