03-23-2008, 04:04 PM
Hello All,
Just had an question posed to me from a newer blitz memeber who wanted to know how it's possible for a grounded helo behind buildings to get 'shot down'
this is my answer, and I'd really like some input from others to see if I've gone off the reservation into some sort of la-la land with what I have postulated..
Seems like I saw a post about this on the blitz some time ago.. and I'm not sure what the general concensus was about it.. but I do remember someone asking why radar AA was able to hit helo's on the ground behind what should have been good cover - like a building..
I remember seeing other comments about how the radar can sometimes 'see' helo's behind hills, but the physical presence of the hill prevents getting shot at..
I've had this happen to me before also.. but not very often..
from the shooter's side of things - the helo does not report as landed.. just that it's there and if it's 'moving'..
I think that what might be happening is two-fold, which is in the game mechanics.. when a unit moves in any turn, the game assigns a 'moving' flag to the unit. Since the game format is I-go-you-go.. when your opponents turn comes along, moving units that can be seen will report a movement speed.. the 'moving' status does not drop until the unit spends an entire friendly turn standing still. In the case you mention above, the helo has moved, then landed. The game engine has flagged the helo as moving.. and that 'moving' status won't drop until the helo does not move for an entire turn.. so in the code, when the game checks to see if something can be shot at during your opponents turn - the 'moving' flag is noted and the helo is available for being shot at..
remember the game is attempting to simulate action that is happening simultaneously.. so in the case of a helo that has just landed, the moving flag is still there.. since during my phase the helo is still 'moving', it is still available as a target..
I think what is being represented is the flight action of a helo.. they simply cannot come to a standstill like a ground vehicle can.. they fly to a spot and then have to come to nearly full hover at some small altitude before they can land.. so in the slow to hover stage they are big fat targets just before they come to roost.. -- I believe that the game simulates that vulnerability by recognizing a just 'landed' helo as still 'moving' during the opponents turn phase.. because it is transitioning from flight to landing (moving). The game provides one last moment of fire opportunity, during this time of extreme vulnerability, thus a helo isn't truly grounded until it has sat there long enough to have the movement flag drop off.
Perhaps, if one compares the reality of life vs this game.. how many cities are you aware of - especially in the highly conjested mid-town areas - actually have enough room for a helo with a 60-80 ft rotor diameter to land in the middle of a city block.. perhaps in some locations in the USA.. but in Berlin?? - where so many of the 'streets' there are barely wide enough to let a single automobile thru?
As far as why you can't see my helo's.. two reasons that you can't see them.. 1st is they started the game on the ground.. and haven't moved yet.. the one helo that you have seen and your units took some shots at has ducked into a canal with a -3 elevation.. helo's 'fly' at low altitude roughly 10 points above current ground level.. so with nearly all the buildings having a level 10 value taller than ground level (0+10 = 10), the helo should be safely hiding below the roof tops (relative altitude of 7).. which is also why a helo flying down a street can often be shot at by a unit at or higher than the building roof level of '10'.. unfortunately the game does not recognize tall buildings.. all buildings are 10 points above the ground level they are sitting on.. so if a map designer truly wanted to simulate the tall building of a city center like Berlin, New York, where ever, they would make the ground the building is sitting on a height of perhaps 30, and leave the roads between at 0.. doing this would simulate, and provide cover for a helo landing behind a building, or flying down a street between buildings..
Greybeard
Just had an question posed to me from a newer blitz memeber who wanted to know how it's possible for a grounded helo behind buildings to get 'shot down'
this is my answer, and I'd really like some input from others to see if I've gone off the reservation into some sort of la-la land with what I have postulated..
Seems like I saw a post about this on the blitz some time ago.. and I'm not sure what the general concensus was about it.. but I do remember someone asking why radar AA was able to hit helo's on the ground behind what should have been good cover - like a building..
I remember seeing other comments about how the radar can sometimes 'see' helo's behind hills, but the physical presence of the hill prevents getting shot at..
I've had this happen to me before also.. but not very often..
from the shooter's side of things - the helo does not report as landed.. just that it's there and if it's 'moving'..
I think that what might be happening is two-fold, which is in the game mechanics.. when a unit moves in any turn, the game assigns a 'moving' flag to the unit. Since the game format is I-go-you-go.. when your opponents turn comes along, moving units that can be seen will report a movement speed.. the 'moving' status does not drop until the unit spends an entire friendly turn standing still. In the case you mention above, the helo has moved, then landed. The game engine has flagged the helo as moving.. and that 'moving' status won't drop until the helo does not move for an entire turn.. so in the code, when the game checks to see if something can be shot at during your opponents turn - the 'moving' flag is noted and the helo is available for being shot at..
remember the game is attempting to simulate action that is happening simultaneously.. so in the case of a helo that has just landed, the moving flag is still there.. since during my phase the helo is still 'moving', it is still available as a target..
I think what is being represented is the flight action of a helo.. they simply cannot come to a standstill like a ground vehicle can.. they fly to a spot and then have to come to nearly full hover at some small altitude before they can land.. so in the slow to hover stage they are big fat targets just before they come to roost.. -- I believe that the game simulates that vulnerability by recognizing a just 'landed' helo as still 'moving' during the opponents turn phase.. because it is transitioning from flight to landing (moving). The game provides one last moment of fire opportunity, during this time of extreme vulnerability, thus a helo isn't truly grounded until it has sat there long enough to have the movement flag drop off.
Perhaps, if one compares the reality of life vs this game.. how many cities are you aware of - especially in the highly conjested mid-town areas - actually have enough room for a helo with a 60-80 ft rotor diameter to land in the middle of a city block.. perhaps in some locations in the USA.. but in Berlin?? - where so many of the 'streets' there are barely wide enough to let a single automobile thru?
As far as why you can't see my helo's.. two reasons that you can't see them.. 1st is they started the game on the ground.. and haven't moved yet.. the one helo that you have seen and your units took some shots at has ducked into a canal with a -3 elevation.. helo's 'fly' at low altitude roughly 10 points above current ground level.. so with nearly all the buildings having a level 10 value taller than ground level (0+10 = 10), the helo should be safely hiding below the roof tops (relative altitude of 7).. which is also why a helo flying down a street can often be shot at by a unit at or higher than the building roof level of '10'.. unfortunately the game does not recognize tall buildings.. all buildings are 10 points above the ground level they are sitting on.. so if a map designer truly wanted to simulate the tall building of a city center like Berlin, New York, where ever, they would make the ground the building is sitting on a height of perhaps 30, and leave the roads between at 0.. doing this would simulate, and provide cover for a helo landing behind a building, or flying down a street between buildings..
Greybeard