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This great big hill overlooks two of the flags in the valley and it is very tempting to place my platoon of Panthers [Pz VG] onto the hill. From there they can survey the territory all around and cause mayhem from a dominating position. Seems like a good idea...

I have the Panthers in two groups and the blue arrows give an idea of their panoramic view. The problem is that I do not actually know where the enemy tanks are. I have seen lots of infantry... but then that particular problem is solved as the T-34/85s race into view

The T-34/85s arrive on the scene and in the ensuing fire-fight all three Panthers in the group are KOd, each one by a front turret penetration [their weak point]. In the picture one crew is crawling away just as the second panther is KOd

In retrospect I think it was a mistake to put the Panthers onto the hill because:
1) I didn't know where the enemy tanks were
2) Too many possible directions to be attacked from
3) Highly likely to be surprised
4) Likely to be attacked while distracted by infantry

I am sure that there may be occasions where placing tanks onto a hill makes sense but I don't think that this was one of them.

I suspect [but do not know] that the panthers being shot at uphill made them more vulnerable. They certainly died quickly. Is that possible or simply my imagination?

Hey that looks familiar !! although your terrain grid makes it look oddly different.


Your point # 1 seems most germane: don't know where the enemy is yet. If I recall correctly, the Panthers were on the hill by about turn 4. My infantry spotted them right away, and I also saw the nice keyhole LOS provided by the road through the woods. Allowed me to set up a rolling ambush-- T-34s come flying around a blind corner with their guns already trained to the right and ready to open fire. It would have been even worse if not for Russian stupidity regarding the "cover armor" rule.....


Bottom line is that the 85mm gun can kill Panthers and Tigers at close range from the front-- no more invulnerable German uber-tanks. At 1000 meters it's a different story. But in a close range fight it's usually who shoots first. In at least 2 of the 3 Panther kills on that hill, my veteran T-34 fired first & penetrated.

Don't stick well armoured tanks on a hill unless you have a long field of fire.

I never buy uber-tanks for the Germans because it encourages stuff like this. Better to lay low, identify your targets, and hunt them down.....coming into view only when you are ready to make the kill. Bring your tanks out if you're sure they cant be shot at by enemy armour or you'll have reasonable time to get back into cover before an enemy tank can get into position. But otherwise the opponent should always be guessing as to where they are.

Agree, the terrain was too close for effective overwatch allowing the T-34s to get too close before engagement and you had a high speed avenue of approach coming right up to the hill without posting any AT
G or infantry there to counter such a move. In such terrain if you decide to want to use the hill maybe consider putting the Panthers behind the hill first posting the hill with units that can observe whats going on then bringing the Panthers out when you locate the main enemy threat. Consider covering all high speed avenues of approach with anti armor weapons of some type.

never place tanks in the middle of the battlefield with "thin" sidearmor :scare:.

and your right rnl.armor rating changes how the tanks stand.more up or down for example.

here is a good example of using the panther a long range in this case mugger couldn't move his T-34, every time he got lOS on my panthers the t-34 pull back. I don't think he got in his OOB T-34/85. may be mugger could explaint it from his side.

here is the picture of my two panther in an small hill.